Vinyl Video Disc?

radio, tape, stands and accessories
Post Reply
fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
United States of America
Posts: 7690
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

Vinyl Video Disc?

Post by fscl » 10 Jan 2009 00:49

I was perusing the "audio patents" area in the forum and reading through a couple of the vinyl compound patents. In particular, the RCA 1976 and the Tate and Lyle 1980 record compounds as they are the 2 newest.

The RCA compound was developed for 4 channel sound which reminded me of the VERY short lived Video Vinyl Discs and RCA video record players?

Does anyone here have one?

The Tate and Lyle compound was developed for antistatic properties.

All of this is interesting reading considering, the Demag LP thread, dirty sounding company vinyl and my search for the perfect cleaning solution.

Fred

Steerpike_jhb
long player
long player
Posts: 1491
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 23:36
Location: Transvaal / South Africa

Post by Steerpike_jhb » 10 Jan 2009 12:56

Somewhere I have a replacement stylus for one - i'll search for it to get a photo.

fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
United States of America
Posts: 7690
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

Post by fscl » 15 Jan 2009 16:32

Found some information on the format.

http://www.cedmagic.com/selectavision.html

In the manufacturing slide show, lubricating oil is applied to the vinyl discs to reduce disc and stylus wear.

I wonder if this is the basis of some of the newer formulations? As audio bandwidth requirement (see magnified video groove simulation slide) is quite a bit less than video, the oil should work even better to perserve our vinyls and stylus'?

Fred

lucy
member
member
Posts: 77
Joined: 24 Nov 2008 12:46
Location: Europe

Post by lucy » 15 Jan 2009 22:46

oldest non conformative video medium i can come up with are them big golden 'laser discs' by philips, i think they are about 26cm wide, the next generation was smaller and silver but never made it out there either, then years later they compressed even more and made VCDs, I have never seen moving pictures on vinyl, loving the idea though hehehe I never knew it existed even. How fast is it spinning to get the bandwith? and does it have a track for R G and B hahaha Cool Stuff...

fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
United States of America
Posts: 7690
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

Post by fscl » 16 Jan 2009 01:48

If I haven't lost too much of my mind, I vaguely remember watching one long ago in CA at an audio store. I couldn't believe that the discs were vinyl and they were loaded into the machine through a slot which would accept the cassette holder.

The picture was in color and was like regular TV, however, after several plays, the picture would suffer noise (snow) and look very poor. I walked away thinking it was an ill fated format, but was amazed at the information bandwidth possible from vinyl.

It was very short lived and eclipsed by video tape. Of course I bet on the wrong tape format too. LOL.

Fred and not going to get fooled again by Blue-Ray.......

fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
United States of America
Posts: 7690
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

Post by fscl » 16 Jan 2009 02:24

The Quicktime video is here:

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/ced-manufa ... -page.html

and a fun glimpse into US manufacturing in the 1980s.

The TT speed which was given in the video is 450RPM.

Enjoy the walk back in time......

Fred

Brian75
senior member
senior member
Posts: 585
Joined: 21 May 2006 11:39
Location: New York

Post by Brian75 » 18 Jan 2009 15:00

Yup,
I remember these. I had one in the early 90's which I had found at a local thrift shop. It was bundled with Star Wars. Looked like poop, sounded like poop. Definitely a curiosity though, which is why I bought it. I think I junked it though because among other things, I couldn't find any other movies for it.

I miss the LD's. They were ALWAYS the REAL widescreen, not this fake compromised widescreen that most DVD's have now.

michaelwnz
senior member
senior member
Posts: 640
Joined: 22 Oct 2002 05:24

Post by michaelwnz » 19 Jan 2009 03:34

Brian75 wrote: I miss the LD's. They were ALWAYS the REAL widescreen, not this fake compromised widescreen that most DVD's have now.
You got that backwards.

How were widescreen LD's with their letterboxed 4:3 picture less compromised than anamorphic DVD ?

Exception being the few anamorphic widescreen LD's.

Werner
long player
long player
Posts: 1341
Joined: 31 May 2002 00:00
Location: Antwerpen

Post by Werner » 19 Jan 2009 12:43


Brian75
senior member
senior member
Posts: 585
Joined: 21 May 2006 11:39
Location: New York

Post by Brian75 » 19 Jan 2009 14:36

michaelwnz wrote:
Brian75 wrote: I miss the LD's. They were ALWAYS the REAL widescreen, not this fake compromised widescreen that most DVD's have now.
You got that backwards.

How were widescreen LD's with their letterboxed 4:3 picture less compromised than anamorphic DVD ?

Exception being the few anamorphic widescreen LD's.
You're totally right. Sorry. I should have used more accurate way of describing what I meant. I just remember most of the movies I viewed on LD having the 2.39:1 aspect ratio. Now since DVD's have become a common thing, and not just a "cinemaphile" thing, the aspect ratio's seem to have stuck to 3:2, 16:9, or 1:85:1 (which is not bad). I'm not exactly familiar with film scopes and the way movies are shot though, but it did seem like the movies on LD had a wider scope. Maybe it's just the way they film them now IDK. If someone can explain this to me, I'd be very grateful. :)

Interestingly enough though, I remember collecting VHS and LD before DVD's came out and the audience went from mostly movie collectors, to just about anyone and everyone. Now most people actually own movie collections rather than just renting them. Could this be the same thing that's going to happen with vinyl now? Less downloading of singles, and more buying of actual albums? Are CD's the new LD's? I was definitely happy with the sound when I got my first Sony DVD player for $400 (hahaha). And I was also happy about the restored versions of old films that I enjoy.

Finger Painter

Post by Finger Painter » 19 Jan 2009 15:53

I do remember the rather large Phillips video discs being as they tried them onboard the ships I served on at the time. I recall the picture quality being very low (probably great at the time), but as pointed out the more you played them the worse they got until such point they were beyond viewing. Onboard a ship with 40 plus people, usually within the first week.

Strange Tate and Lyle being involved in audio/visual patents being as their primary source of business is sugar. Unless of course there is something we don't know about the use of sugar as a recording medium.

Tea with two please, and can I have it with a frequency response of.......

michaelwnz
senior member
senior member
Posts: 640
Joined: 22 Oct 2002 05:24

Post by michaelwnz » 19 Jan 2009 23:17

Brian75;

It could well be your LD titles were of big budget releases shot in an anamorphic process like Panavision with it's wider 2.40:1 aspect ratio.

Regular "flat" (non-anamorphic) films are usually in 1.85:1, older European films favoured 1.66:1, older UK 1.75:1.

Then there were the mega-super duper films like How The West Was Won and The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm, shot in Cinerama with it's super-wide 2.6-2.8:1 aspect ratio.

Plus early CinemaScope films like East of Eden in 2.55:1.

On old 4:3 TV's, these wide films would look very small on even large CRT TV's, with a major loss of resolution as much of the active picture area would be taken up by black bars.

Jump to the digital era with 16:9 widescreen TV's and we also got a new way of watching widescreen films at home in the form of anamorphic DVD and its much improved picture quality.

In the old LD days, high production costs and a small market would have limited the selection of titles released on LD to films that had a good chance of selling.

Today with the proliferation of cheap DVD, films are just another commodity.

For further reading on widescreen films, this is probably the best site around, very informative and easy to read.

:D

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/index.htm

Steerpike_jhb
long player
long player
Posts: 1491
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 23:36
Location: Transvaal / South Africa

Post by Steerpike_jhb » 20 Jan 2009 18:45

Phillips video discs being as they tried them onboard the ships I served on at the time. I recall the picture quality being very low (probably great at the time), but as pointed out the more you played them the worse they got until such point they were beyond viewing.
I think you are maligning Philips, incorrectly.
Philips created Laservision aka Laserdisc, which offered about 450 lines of resolution - far better than any analogue broadcast TV format.
The discs - being read optically - did not wear at all.
CD is the direct descendant of Laservision.

RCAs Selectavision was a physical contact pickup system that did wear, and never offered a very high picture resolution.

JVC also had a contact pickup system called VHD, as did Telefunken - called Minidisc. (dunno if Sony negotiated for that name or just took it without asking - the formats are totally incompatible)

Brian75
senior member
senior member
Posts: 585
Joined: 21 May 2006 11:39
Location: New York

Post by Brian75 » 21 Jan 2009 22:28

michaelwnz:

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :) You're absolutely right! In fact, one that I remember most was The Empire Strikes Back... which as you stated, was a big budget film. Going to check out this link you posted to finally clear up my years of confusion on this subject! Thanks again! :)

Post Reply