Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

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Woodbrains
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Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Woodbrains » 02 Jan 2019 19:01

Hello,

I know this is one of those very polarised subjects, but my better amp has no tone control. My other amp does, and a loudness button, and is OK, but not, to my ears, as nice sounding. Likely it is due to the fact that I cannot drive them as hard as I might like, due to neighbours.

I think I might like some control of the sound, does anyone a: recommend using one, and b) recommend one to use. I guess used is the way to go here, as they seem to be scarce new, except for DJing.

I have looked at a Schiit Loki, but that would only work on one input, which might suffice, but I would prefer a system wide control.

Of course there is always another amplifier with tone control I could consider.

Thoughts?

Mike.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Pauw » 02 Jan 2019 19:07

I think it depends on your philosophy.....when I built my system I was very minimalist. I wanted all the energy to go along the simplest path from source to output. So for me no frills, no extra parts in the signal path....Thus no auto decks, no tone controls etc......

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by analogaudio » 02 Jan 2019 19:17

Yes there are two in my system, one remains preset with the adjustments required for correction of room acoustics, the other I use to adjust tonal balance "to-taste" in response to the variety of tonal balances found across the range of LP releases, and I also use it to make adjustments to suit the music and my mood :-)

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Woodbrains » 02 Jan 2019 19:48

analogaudio wrote:
02 Jan 2019 19:17
Yes there are two in my system, one remains preset with the adjustments required for correction of room acoustics, the other I use to adjust tonal balance "to-taste" in response to the variety of tonal balances found across the range of LP releases, and I also use it to make adjustments to suit the music and my mood :-)
Hello,

Ha, as expected, not only polarised, but polarised across the Atlantic! I always knew North Americans had more of a favouring of these and British , Europeans less so.

I get keeping the signal path simple, but if something sounds bad, do we have to live with that? I have never used one, though friends had them with miriad flashing LEDs in the 80,s and these were undoubtedly gimmicks. Would a quality one really be more detrimental than beneficial if my less than ideal listening room could be corrected somewhat. I am also noticing many recordings have flaws that might be tweakable. How do the pure of signal path deal with that. The former obviously can be corrected by optimising a room, if at all possible, but the latter. Do we just accept the recording as is, or not play that music. :lol:

Mike.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by JDJX » 02 Jan 2019 20:18

IMO ...as a old audiophile...

Those who are against a (quality) EQ are simply ignorant about it and really have no idea how an EQ functions and how to use one.

Yes, I know some will say that that they know all about one but they really don't

For just one example... they do not know the difference between a passive EQ or passive EQ setting vs an active setting/EQ.

IMO they just believe and repeat bad info from the net about one.

keep in mind that many EQs are usually part of the audio chain.... stating with the recording ...:)

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Spinner45 » 02 Jan 2019 21:04

JDJX wrote:
02 Jan 2019 20:18
IMO ...as a old audiophile...

Those who are against a (quality) EQ are simply ignorant about it and really have no idea how an EQ functions and how to use one.

Yes, I know some will say that that they know all about one but they really don't

For just one example... they do not know the difference between a passive EQ or passive EQ setting vs an active setting/EQ.

IMO they just believe and repeat bad info from the net about one.

keep in mind that many EQs are usually part of the audio chain.... stating with the recording ...:)
Absolutely.
Key word: Quality EQ.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Sterling1 » 02 Jan 2019 22:47

I deploy my iTunes equalizer on occasion, especially on LP's I've digitized, mostly jazz and classical recordings.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 03 Jan 2019 15:16

Even when I had an analog linear equalizer I used it in a measure then set and leave alone mode. Currently my DSP (12 band parametric) is used in a measure then set and forget mode. If I had tone controls I might be tempted to use them. However, my preamp doesn't have tone controls and I don't miss them.

When I see a smiley face on an equalizer I'm assured that whoever is using it has no idea how to use an equalizer for what it was designed. Room equalization was/is their primary reason for existence. If one is used for room equalization the result will never be a smiley face.

For those who are considering some sort of equalization/tone control I highly recommend the Schiit Loki. The controls are far more helpful for program corrections than a 10 or 12 band equalizer.

If someone made a stand alone loudness control I'd jump on that wagon. Even though I live alone with the ability to play whatever I want whenever I want, I sometimes use lower volumes. For those instances a variable loudness control would be very handy. That's one of the major reasons I like the Yamaha AS-xxxx series of integrated amplifiers.

With a variable loudness control you set the maximum volume you'll be using and use the control to lower the volume from there. You get progressively more compensation as the volume is lowered. This is an order of magnitude better the usual switch which is usually derived from a 50% tap on the volume control.

The problem with a switch is that it's not related to the actual levels used. An efficient horn may be as loud as one would ever want with the volume no higher than 9 O-Clock. A relatively inefficient acoustic suspension speaker may need a volume setting of 2 O-Clock. There is no way a simple switch can be right for either. The horn based system will usually have to much compensation and the acoustic suspension system won't have enough.

I fully realize that those who love linear equalizers will continue to use and constantly tweak them. I've been there and done that. Trying to second guess the engineers intentions or my own got to be rather tiresome. So, although I used a linear Eq from 1974 to 1980, the last few years I used it in a measure, set and forget mode via an LP with test tones and a Rat Shack SLM. After 1981 I went without any type of equalizer until purchasing a DSP ~6 years ago.

My current DSP was set using a Umik 1 mic, REW and a laptop PC.

Using an Eq or multiple ones for making a recording is not in any way related to using one in the home. They are for most people glorified tone controls. If you have and use one that way that's your business and I have no problem with that.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Sterling1 » 03 Jan 2019 15:37

OP, I don't even contemplate the engineers intentions. I just experiment because I can, and if I get something pleasant from equalizer application, why not? After all, it's my music, which is all about me, as well as the way I want to hear it. I don't care what others think of my music preferences, and/or the sound I prefer is not the way they believe it ought to be. The bottom-line, I did not put together my music library and my means to enjoy that library to please anyone but me. So, I say, experiment with bass, with equalizers, cartridges, and whatever else is out there, which will give you control of your music without regard to what the Audiophile Police dictate you should want. Be a critical thinker. Think on your own, you do not need anyone enjoined in this arena telling you the way it ought to be.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Woodbrains » 03 Jan 2019 16:53

Hello,

I don't think I want to continually tweak the equaliser, though I can't say if I got one I might get experimental! It is purely because I have no tone control on the amp I have, and I am getting some recordings that sound good to me, so don't care. Then I put on another and the overly bright treble does my head in. If I could just knock it back a tad I would be happy. I think my amp is on the bright side anyway, so it is is easy to take it over the edge. Then I have recordings with no bass! My speakers have 10 inch woofers, and certainly don't lack any clout, but some recordings just lose it all.

To be honest, I guess I just need treble and bass control, likely the mid bands on an equaliser would remain flat. I like the idea of the Schiit Loki, but it is limited to one input and I like to listen to 2 tables, a CD player and a tuner. A system wide solution would be ideal.

Mike.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Woodbrains » 03 Jan 2019 22:16

Hello,

Kenwood GE 970, any good? Spectrum analyser and DSP incorporated. Can't find much about it, Hi Fi engine has no files on it.

Mike.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by analogaudio » 04 Jan 2019 00:44

Look for something modern, made in the 1990s at the earliest, good quality audio amplification had become inexpensive by then. Avoid vintage 1970s/80s hifi models.

One of the common professional formats was two channels of graphic EQ in one box, often with 31 vertical sliders side by side (no fancy lights), this is called one third octave graphic EQ and is a very powerful tool.

Some professional and semi-professional brands are

professional
Klark-Teknik
Audient
BSS
Rane

semi-professional
dBx
Behringer

Woodbrains
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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Woodbrains » 04 Jan 2019 00:52

analogaudio wrote:
04 Jan 2019 00:44
Look for something modern, made in the 1990s at the earliest, good quality audio amplification had become inexpensive by then. Avoid vintage 1970s/80s hifi models.

One of the common professional formats was two channels of graphic EQ in one box, often with 31 vertical sliders side by side (no fancy lights), this is called one third octave graphic EQ and is a very powerful tool.

Some professional and semi-professional brands are

professional
Klark-Teknik
Audient
BSS
Rane

semi-professional
dBx
Behringer
Hello,

Thanks for this. I had noticed some of the brand's you list, but all seem to have balanced inputs and outputs. Can XLR connections be adapted for RCA on home audio? Otherwise I would have tried one of these before.

Mike

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by Sterling1 » 04 Jan 2019 12:34

Woodbrains wrote:
04 Jan 2019 00:52
analogaudio wrote:
04 Jan 2019 00:44
Look for something modern, made in the 1990s at the earliest, good quality audio amplification had become inexpensive by then. Avoid vintage 1970s/80s hifi models.

One of the common professional formats was two channels of graphic EQ in one box, often with 31 vertical sliders side by side (no fancy lights), this is called one third octave graphic EQ and is a very powerful tool.

Some professional and semi-professional brands are

professional
Klark-Teknik
Audient
BSS
Rane

semi-professional
dBx
Behringer
Hello,

Thanks for this. I had noticed some of the brand's you list, but all seem to have balanced inputs and outputs. Can XLR connections be adapted for RCA on home audio? Otherwise I would have tried one of these before.

Mike
Yes, buy cables that terminate balanced on one end and RCA on the other end. Here's one precaution, do not use such cable for sending +4 db output from the professional equipment to the -10 db input consumer equipment . The mismatch will get you clipped/distorted sound which cannot be corrected and although I do not think the condition could damage the consumer recorder, others say it's possible.

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Re: Anyone use a graphic equaliser?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 04 Jan 2019 17:41

Woodbrains wrote:
04 Jan 2019 00:52
analogaudio wrote:
04 Jan 2019 00:44
Look for something modern, made in the 1990s at the earliest, good quality audio amplification had become inexpensive by then. Avoid vintage 1970s/80s hifi models.

One of the common professional formats was two channels of graphic EQ in one box, often with 31 vertical sliders side by side (no fancy lights), this is called one third octave graphic EQ and is a very powerful tool.

Some professional and semi-professional brands are

professional
Klark-Teknik
Audient
BSS
Rane

semi-professional
dBx
Behringer
Hello,

Thanks for this. I had noticed some of the brand's you list, but all seem to have balanced inputs and outputs. Can XLR connections be adapted for RCA on home audio? Otherwise I would have tried one of these before.

Mike

There are XLR to RCA adaptors readily available. Just remember that XLR cables are directional, in that one end has a Female XLR and the other has a Male XLR. My system has a mix of xlr and RCA cables. I use adaptors for some and XLR to RCA cables for others.

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