Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

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egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 09 May 2012 15:18

I assembled the kit and, after numerous attempts to minimize the rumble, I came to this solution:
- Decouple the support plate of the motor from the motor itself with plenty blu-tac, without fixing the motor to the plate with the two screws.
- Decouple the support plate of the motor from the chassis with two blu-tac blobs (no screws as well)
- Put a 35g fishing weight (with a little bit of blu-tac) on a side of the motor plate, to compensate the Oring tension.
- Put a surface of blu-tac on the motor plate, to minimize the vibration and the resonance.

I did'nt use the kit grommets and scrwes: only the pulley and the Oring.

That is my best solution :wink:

Ciao,
Egidio

P.S.: W blu-tac :D

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 09 May 2012 18:00

Sorry to all ...
I forgot to specify that my turntable is a 1 Xperience (about 10 years old), discontinued, with an Arcam E77 Mg Series (by A&R Cambridge) cartridge.

Garven
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Garven » 17 May 2012 17:21

I finally got around to writing Kurt Martens from Essential Audio yesterday about the current status of the S/E upgrade kit since last I heard from him in January, he was waiting for Pro-Ject to send him a new pulley for speed testing.

He replied to me this morning stating that Pro-Ject has decided to discontinue the round belt and its matching pulley because this combination was prone to tolerance variations. They're apparently still selling an "S/E Upgrade Kit" that consists of the standard pulley and flat belt with the suspension grommets (I don't know why they'd need to include the standard pulley and flat belt as an upgrade to "the standard pulley and flat belt"!). He mentioned that this version has also been implemented in the new Debut Carbon turntable.

So basically I paid $40 for two small rubber grommets!!

Audirc
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Audirc » 18 May 2012 02:18

Wow, sure hope I don't deal with this crap with my 5.1SE. I've planned my next upgrade to be a speed box and heard that can cause motor noise. Anyone deal with this?

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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by moon unit » 18 May 2012 06:03

Good thing I ended up buying a Speed Box SE! I was able to correct the speed before I got it though by using a thin piece of tape cut to about an 1/8" (maybe less) wide, wrapped around the 45hz section of the pulley. I wasn't using the screws (never have) and added 35g (affixed with Blu-tac) at the end of the bracket to straighten out the pulley, as JonP suggested. The main benefit I found was that it served to dampen the motor bracket, as egicar found as well. Worked a treat and the table sounded better than it ever had.

More bull**** from Pro-Ject, nothing new. If the 50hz pulley/round belt runs at the correct speed, why is it so difficult to produce a 60hz pulley/round belt that does as well???

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 20 May 2012 21:56

Garven wrote:I finally got around to writing Kurt Martens from Essential Audio yesterday about the current status of the S/E upgrade kit since last I heard from him in January, he was waiting for Pro-Ject to send him a new pulley for speed testing.

He replied to me this morning stating that Pro-Ject has decided to discontinue the round belt and its matching pulley because this combination was prone to tolerance variations. They're apparently still selling an "S/E Upgrade Kit" that consists of the standard pulley and flat belt with the suspension grommets (I don't know why they'd need to include the standard pulley and flat belt as an upgrade to "the standard pulley and flat belt"!). He mentioned that this version has also been implemented in the new Debut Carbon turntable.

So basically I paid $40 for two small rubber grommets!!
I don't know if I was more or less lucky than you: paid € 67 for pulley and o'ring, perhaps without reason :lol:
I'd say that I bought a 2nd hand SpeedBox II and it works well: no strange effets.
I tested the platter's speed with a digital tachometer: 33.3 stable.

Garven
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Garven » 22 May 2012 18:31

I dug out my kit again this weekend and decided to try again to see if it would help the resonance problem with my Xpression II. I thought perhaps putting a tiny bit of tape around the pulley as someone mentioned earlier in the thread would help the speed issue.

At any rate, removing the blu-tack and trying every possible variation with the kit resulted in a distinct increase if in deep rumble at 33 and a really obvious 120Hz tone at 45rpm (that's with the speed box. Without the speed box, the 120Hz hum is there at both speeds since the motor turns at the same speed for both 33 and 45). I did want to try without any screws, just having the motor bracket float atop the grommets, but I have an acrylic platter and it simply won't work. The top of the pulley rubs against the bottom of the platter no matter how low I run the pulley on the motor shaft.

In the end, I got the best results by putting new layers of blu-tack under the motor bracket tabs that hold the transit screws then screwing those screws into another layer of blu-tack atop the bracket and lining the screw holes. With this, my 33rpm resonance is basically gone and the 120Hz tone at 45rpm isn't nearly as obnoxious as with the kit or with the original sling. I also noticed a slight improvement with not attaching the sling to the four screws at all.

Another thing I've noticed about this approach is that the blue-tack seems to harden or "cure" with time. Before I ripped it out of there this weekend to experiment, the 120Hz tone at 45rpm was barely noticeable. When I put the blue-tack back, it was much louder than before, but by the end of the weekend, it seemed to be receding again.

So thank God for blu-tack!

The only downside of this is that it's pretty difficult to sell my existing TT as is or even trade it at a reputable shop. I was thinking of upgrading next fall, but I honestly don't know which direction to take. I was considering something further up the Pro-Ject line but everything except the >$2000 models (out of my price range) seem to have that same sling approach to motor mounting and I really cannot see myself spending more money for the same problem. Maybe a Rega or some of the other tts out there in the price range above the Xpression. The problem is what to do with the Xpression and its unsightly yet effective blue-tack blobs under the acrylic!

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 22 May 2012 21:25

Here is my best solution
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Two kinds of blu-tac: UHU and Prit
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35g fisher weigh and blu-tac on the motor plate
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No screws at all.
The motor is fixed at the plate with (a lot of) blu-tac as well :wink:
The rumble is "almost" 0.
I checked the installation after a week of intensive use: nothing is changed.

Garven
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Garven » 23 May 2012 00:07

Your subplatter is a LOT thicker than mine! My subplatter is about the same height as the pulley. What model is your turntable?

Garven
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Garven » 23 May 2012 02:17

Also, are you saying you completely removed the two tiny screws holding the motor to its bracket and only the blue-tack is holding the motor to the bracket?

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 23 May 2012 10:58

Hi Garven,
my TT is an "old" 1 Xpression, with a 9 carbon tonearm.
Yes, I removed these screws, so that the motor does'nt have rigid connections with the turntable: only blu-tac.

Garven
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by Garven » 25 May 2012 13:37

I tried removing those screws and using nothing but blu-tac Wednesday evening. It wasn't too bad but there was still the 120Hz tone at 45rpm and the overall rumble at 33 seemed to focus somewhat around 85-90Hz.

I then tried removing the motor bracket completely and just sitting the motor on two balls of blu-tac using the small tabs on the side of the motor where the bracket screws normally go. This seemed slightly better.

Last evening I went home from work with the idea of removing the bottom cover completely and just sitting the motor on a big blob of blu-tack thereby isolating the motor from the plinth completely! However, it had been awhile since I looked at that cover and forgot that it covers the power jack, etc., so I decided not to.

After that I decided to go back to what worked the best for me so far out of any solution, putting the motor bracket back on with screws then securing the whole assembly with the transit screws tightened down with a thin layer of blu-tac underneath the screw tabs. I also put some blu-tac between the motor and bracket to replace the function of the old sling keeping the plate apart from the motor. This seemed to reduce the rumble at 33 the most or at least "defocus"it from a specific tone plus the 120Hz tone at 45rpm, while still there, is almost unobtrusive. I'm thinking that my motor may be a dud. It seems to vibrate a lot when it's turning so at some point I may try replacing it. Or I might just get a whole new deck. It's too bad in a way because I've finally got the rest of my rig working well and dialed in the alignment and VTA on my 2M Black to the point where it's really singing.

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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by azvd » 26 May 2012 14:29

I guess, at this point, that it's just better to take Project TTs as the way they are. Turntable that produces a low level rumble when the needle touches the record.

I enjoy the sound of my RPM5 when music's on. The rumble can get on one's nerve, but I can live with it until I upgrade to another table. Don't think there's a definitive and simple solution to overpass this problem.

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 27 May 2012 09:57

azvd wrote:I guess, at this point, that it's just better to take Project TTs as the way they are. Turntable that produces a low level rumble when the needle touches the record.

I enjoy the sound of my RPM5 when music's on. The rumble can get on one's nerve, but I can live with it until I upgrade to another table. Don't think there's a definitive and simple solution to overpass this problem.
Maybe you are right, but, IMO, why don't try to solve/reduce the problem, if possible?
I think that the Garven's idea about completely isolating the motor from the plinth is the real and final solution, adopted in RPM 9.1, 9.2 and 10.1.
According to your thinking, I'm satisfied of my solution (I don't listen 45 rpm records) and I can live togheter with my "almost 0 rumble" Pro-Ject 1 Xpression.

egicar
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Re: Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by egicar » 02 Jun 2012 14:29

Herie is an update about my experiments to reduce "rumble".
I used some pieces of Kyosho "zeal" (Z8006) vibration adsorption sheet instead of the blu-tac: more clean and effective. It is a doble faces adhesive gel (about 5 mm thicK).
I have it because one of my hobbies is RC helicopters and I use it to insulate the electronic flybar box against the vibrations of the helicopter.
Anodther upgrade I've just done is the glass platter, made by my glazier (€35 = $44): 10 mm thick, 300 mm diameter.
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