Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

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TheAppleChap
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Official Pro-Ject Fix For Turntable Rumble Now Launched

Post by TheAppleChap » 29 Jul 2011 11:46

The "S/E Upgrade Kit" from Pro-ject has now been launched that will put to bed, once and for all, any problems with low level rumble noise on affected Pro-ject turntables.

The kit comprising a replacement pulley and belt and rubber isolating grommets and screws costs £25 and is available from Henley Designs in the UK. It may also be available from your local Pro-ject supplier.

I was given access to the kit two days ago and the installation was simple, taking less than ten minutes and should be easily doable for anyone able to wield a screwdriver.

I have written an instruction guide and posted a full review on my blog at :

http://www.theapplechap.com/TheAppleCha ... umble.html

Henley Designs describe the fix as "These simple additions help decouple (isolate) the motor from the turntable plinth. By doing this, unwanted vibrations from the motor are dramatically reduced, allowing the sub-platter to spin truer, and the tonearm to transmit the sound signal better."

Enough to say that on my turntable there was a complete removal of ALL low level rumble, shoring up the bass, making it deeper and more controlled.

I would thoroughly recommend this kit to all Pro-ject owners with compatible turntables.

I'm grateful to Henley Designs for agreeing to lend me the necessary parts and let me review them and post the article on my blog. I have no professional relationship with Henley Designs and had a free hand to write the article. Therefore all errors and omissions are mine and mine alone.

Cheers

Alan

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Great News!

Post by octaneTom » 29 Jul 2011 14:31

After purchasing my Xpression III I found posts about the rumble appearing on Pro-Ject decks and I've been dreading the day that it might show up on mine.

And hats off to you for all your diligent research!

TheAppleChap
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Upgrade Kit

Post by TheAppleChap » 29 Jul 2011 15:25

Hi octaneTom,

Thanks for your kind comment.

Even though you don't have the rumble, your deck may sound better with the new kit. Mine does so it was worth the £25 for that alone irrespective of fixing the rumble.

Alan

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Looking Into It...

Post by octaneTom » 29 Jul 2011 17:57

Yes - as soon as it's available here in the States I'll probably pick it up.

I've also been hesitant to purchase and install the Speed Box in my system because of fear of the rumble showing up - the threads I've read seem to indicate that made the issue worse and/or appear, so now I'm thinking about getting one of those as well....

TheAppleChap
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The Speed Box

Post by TheAppleChap » 29 Jul 2011 18:16

I also heard about the problems with the Speedbox - I think there may have been a problem with 45RPM but not 33 1/3 or something like that.

I've been using the Speedbox2 since I bought my RPM5 and the problem I had was electrical noise. There is a screw with a metal washer either on the side or bottom of the Speedbox2, I used this to ground it to the earth on my amplifier and the noise went away.

I slightly regret not buying the Speedbox2 SE as this allows you to fine tune the speed. The regular Speedbox2 is fixed. I guess its worth checking the speed of your Xpression III and if its spot on then save the money and get the regular version. I haven't heard of any sonic improvements using the SE but it may be worth checking on the forum.

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Post by cafe latte » 30 Jul 2011 00:26

Finally this has a fix!! Well done =D> =D> =D> I wonder if this is going to be fitted to all new decks, or is it just going to be an add on?
Regards
CL

TheAppleChap
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The New Fix

Post by TheAppleChap » 30 Jul 2011 02:23

Hi Cafe Latte

not sure about all TT's but its already on the new Project Debut S/E3. I'm not sure how widely this is available but it was tested in the latest copy of What HIFI and got 5 stars.

The link to the deck is below and mentions the enhanced suspension:

http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/product. ... ductID=824

The fix is compatible with the following according to Henley Design's site:

Debut III, Debut II, Debut, Xpression III, Xpression I, 1 Xpression, Pro-Ject 1, 1.2, RPM 4, RPM 5

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Post by moon unit » 30 Jul 2011 08:03

Alan, what is the reason for the replacement pulley? Are the grooves on this pulley more suitable to the rounded belt than the stock pulley?

Also, this appears to be a Henley product and not a product from Pro-Ject itself, I don't believe they will ship to the USA.

Thanks

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New Pulley

Post by TheAppleChap » 30 Jul 2011 18:44

Hi,

I think its to work better with the round belt. When I used a round belt with the original pulley I think there was some slipping, particularly when you start the turntable.

I'm not sure about the origin as the packaging is in German which indicates a Pro-ject part as I think they are in Austria. It's packaging looks like its a spare part for the Pro-ject Debut III SE (I don't know how to load an image buts it's the one on my Blog).

I'd send Henley an email if I was you to see if they'll ship to the US or if dealers will be stocking it over there. There is also an eBay retailer that stocks Pro-ject parts "HiFi Heros" maybe you'll be able to get one that way.

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Post by Bob_in_OKC » 31 Jul 2011 04:37

I would think in order to use a round belt without affecting the speed you'd have to use a pulley of slightly smaller diameter. To use this setup with North America's 60Hz power frequency, it seems like the pulley would need to be still smaller...true?

moon unit
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Post by moon unit » 31 Jul 2011 09:35

Bob_in_OKC wrote:I would think in order to use a round belt without affecting the speed you'd have to use a pulley of slightly smaller diameter. To use this setup with North America's 60Hz power frequency, it seems like the pulley would need to be still smaller...true?
Very true - with the 50Hz pulley and our 60Hz line frequency there would definitely be a speed problem.

I was mainly interested in trying out the round belt which looks to be a smaller diameter than the one Alan originally used from turntableneedles.com, which looked kind of bulky. If it would affect the speed accuracy of my table then I guess I don't have much use for this kit. Possibly Sumiko will distribute a similar kit for the US market in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything useful to come out of that company.

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Post by Kighter » 31 Jul 2011 14:53

Does the speed box SE2 have enough adjustability to compensate for the pulley difference? Is the range of variance great enough? That might make the 50Hz version possible in the states.

Perhaps if they use this mounting system on new tables going forward it would be available as parts from someone like needle doctor.

Moon Unit - I used your tweak you posted on AK (I think it was you). Loosening the screws to raise the suspension belt and putting rubber band pieces between the plinth and the suspension. Improved things for me.

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Speed Stability with New Pulley And Belt

Post by TheAppleChap » 31 Jul 2011 16:16

I've just been and measured the new pulley and belt on my Pro-ject RPM5.

The old belt (the one I got from turntableneedles.com) was pretty good being about 1% fast.

Using various fixed frequencies (300hz, 1000Hz, 10000Hz) from my 3 HiFi Test Records and using SignalScope on my iPad the new pulley and belt seemed absolutely spot on. Only on a few occasions did the frequency deviate from accurate by a few Hz.

I'm assuming that the software is fairly accurate and using 3 different test records was I thought a pretty good test. The strobe disk (which moved ever so slowly on the old pulley and belt) was as pretty much static. The only movement I could notice was due to the spindle hole being slightly off centre.

I definitely wouldn't see this as a barrier to getting the new kit.

Hope this helps

Alan

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Re: Speed Stability with New Pulley And Belt

Post by moon unit » 01 Aug 2011 05:23

TheAppleChap wrote:I've just been and measured the new pulley and belt on my Pro-ject RPM5.

The old belt (the one I got from turntableneedles.com) was pretty good being about 1% fast.

Using various fixed frequencies (300hz, 1000Hz, 10000Hz) from my 3 HiFi Test Records and using SignalScope on my iPad the new pulley and belt seemed absolutely spot on. Only on a few occasions did the frequency deviate from accurate by a few Hz.

I'm assuming that the software is fairly accurate and using 3 different test records was I thought a pretty good test. The strobe disk (which moved ever so slowly on the old pulley and belt) was as pretty much static. The only movement I could notice was due to the spindle hole being slightly off centre.

I definitely wouldn't see this as a barrier to getting the new kit.

Hope this helps

Alan
Alan,

The USA pulley is sized for a 60Hz line frequency and the UK/EU pulley is sized for a 50Hz line frequency. You can not use a 50Hz pulley in the USA or a 60Hz pulley in the UK/EU, the speed of your table will either become much too fast or much too slow. The Debut III SE/3 is a UK exclusive and I'm almost sure that Henley is solely responsible for bringing this table (and kit) to market. If I used this kit on my table I would not be able to use the pulley it comes with, that's why I asked about the difference between the pulley that came with your table and the one that came with the kit. Am I right in saying that the round belt included in the kit is a smaller diameter than the one you ordered form turntableneedles.com?

Thanks

moon unit
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Post by moon unit » 01 Aug 2011 05:45

Kighter wrote:
Moon Unit - I used your tweak you posted on AK (I think it was you). Loosening the screws to raise the suspension belt and putting rubber band pieces between the plinth and the suspension. Improved things for me.
Make sure you use the 2 rubber band pieces only on the band closest to the spindle, not on the band closer to the edge of the table. The purpose of this is only to straighten out the motor so the band rides back in the middle of the pulley groove, If you add rubber band pieces to the rear band it only adds unnecessary contact between the suspension belt and plinth where there was none before (the rear belt should be floating just slightly above the plinth, no contact).

Make sure you try out Flitzing the spindle, then putting a couple drops of oil on the bottom of the spindle (not in the bearing well) and re-insert - it made an audible difference on my table and my friend's Debut III. Bigger difference on mine but I think it had more to do with the better cart than the table

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