How do you separate the art from the artist?

name that tune
JDJX
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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JDJX » 02 Feb 2019 19:05

BTW..... when Lou Alcindor converted to Islam and changed his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ... and engaged some sport related controversies, sports fans did not seem to care....

Also, "The Diixi Chick" s are indeed another example of their fans ditching them.......... simply because their fans did not agree with their anti war comment .

I think that music fans feel a much more personal connection to the music and those who perform it....

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 03 Feb 2019 14:18

JDJX wrote:
02 Feb 2019 19:05
I think that music fans feel a much more personal connection to the music and those who perform it....
Yes, although sometimes said connection is totally off.

I'm thinking of a Neil Young concert where he made clear his distaste for Bush's policies and/or the Iraq war and some audience members got totally pissed. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing because I figured if you are a fan of his, you souldn't have been surprised. :shock:

Now, don't know if it is the effect of this thread (don't really think so :D ) but, yesterday, I watched a documentary about WW2, found out Herbert Von Karajan was a nazi, and went looking for more info.

As a lot of info from this period, what I found about HVK is confusing. So I kept my one record conducted by him. :)

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vinyl master » 03 Feb 2019 18:44

You talk of Neil Young, but if anyone knows Neil Young, he's always been controversial in some way or another...Remember when Lynyrd Skynyrd said "A Southern man don't need him around anyhow"? Anyone watch "Greendale"? "Living With War" was a totally anti-Bush album..."The Monsanto Years" is a critique of agribusiness...The man just sings the things that are on his mind...Of course, he's also the man behind Pono and is a devoted fan of Lionel trains, so I can appreciate all sides of his personality...

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 03 Feb 2019 21:11

I'm not a Cat Stevens fan. It has absolutely nothing to do with his religious persuasion. His music has never moved me. That's why I have none of his recordings. OTOH John Lucien is a Nichirin Soshu Buddhist and I like his music and have a couple of his recordings. Pedophile/child molester Michael created music that I like and listen to. His personal life I find abhorrent.

I'm not a fan of any religion. I dislike all of them equally. Gospel and religious music of any type doesn't get played here.


FWIW: Lionel trains IMO have their good points. However, I've never been able to get past having three rails in the track. It blows the look of a real train to me. I'm currently building an N Scale layout.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 03 Feb 2019 21:15

I'm not a Cat Stevens fan. It has absolutely nothing to do with his religious persuasion. His music has never moved me. That's why I have none of his recordings. OTOH, John Lucien is a Nichirin Soshu Buddhist. I like his music and have a couple of his recordings. Pedophile/child molester Michael created music that I like and listen to. I have a couple of reordings. His personal life I find abhorrent.

I'm not a fan of any religion. I dislike all of them equally. Gospel and religious music of any type doesn't get played here.

FWIW: Lionel trains IMO have their good points. However, I've never been able to get past having three rails in the track. It blows the look of a real train to me. I'm currently building an N Scale layout.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 03 Feb 2019 21:15

deleted double post

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by H. callahan » 04 Feb 2019 05:50

Not trying to defend or anything, but in case you´re talking about Micheal Jackson: After Jackson died one of the kids stated that he wasn´t being molested but that it was the idea of his parents to claim so to make money. As far as i know this kid commited suicide after he stated it was a lie - and i think there even came up recorded phone calls of his parents planning to fraud Jackson.
Seen it on TV some years ago, soon after Jackson died.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vanakaru » 04 Feb 2019 06:10

H. callahan wrote:
04 Feb 2019 05:50
Not trying to defend or anything, but in case you´re talking about Micheal Jackson: After Jackson died one of the kids stated that he wasn´t being molested but that it was the idea of his parents to claim so to make money. As far as i know this kid commited suicide after he stated it was a lie - and i think there even came up recorded phone calls of his parents planning to fraud Jackson.
Seen it on TV some years ago, soon after Jackson died.
This part of equation should not be ignored either - many times the accusations do not get proved. However the story will stain person regardless. And medias business model is built on scandal. So if person is dealing with media, benefiting of being famous, he needs to accept the situation when attention gets sour. And so must all the fans - it is part of the deal.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by davidsss » 04 Feb 2019 08:42

I don't get why Steven Georgiou/Cat Stevens/Yusuf gets mentioned here at all. He converted to Islam, well so what. As an atheist I really don't give a crap. I would think that before his conversion he was maybe Orthodox Christian (Greek background on, I think, his father's side) and again, don't care. I'm sure there's plenty of religions represented in the music I own, that's their choice.

Politics does matter to me, but politics is an interest of mine so that makes sense.

I have a fair bit of Karajan, his background is a big concern but a bit muddy. It does make me think and does affect how I consider his work.

[Aussie only content warning] Not sure if I could listen to music from an Adelaide supporter either, then again, after the 2017 GF I can't bring myself to really hate them any more ;)

The problem is, the work remains the work, there are some horrible people out there who have managed to produce some great music, all's the pity.

DS

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 04 Feb 2019 10:11

davidsss wrote:
04 Feb 2019 08:42
I don't get why Steven Georgiou/Cat Stevens/Yusuf gets mentioned here at all. He converted to Islam, well so what. As an atheist I really don't give a crap. I would think that before his conversion he was maybe Orthodox Christian (Greek background on, I think, his father's side) and again, don't care. I'm sure there's plenty of religions represented in the music I own, that's their choice.

Politics does matter to me, but politics is an interest of mine so that makes sense.

I have a fair bit of Karajan, his background is a big concern but a bit muddy. It does make me think and does affect how I consider his work.

[Aussie only content warning] Not sure if I could listen to music from an Adelaide supporter either, then again, after the 2017 GF I can't bring myself to really hate them any more ;)

The problem is, the work remains the work, there are some horrible people out there who have managed to produce some great music, all's the pity.

DS
I'm in a similar situation. I don't think much of religion(s) in general but to each his own so long as the person is not a fanatic. I do have religious music because some of it I just find beautiful and I can skip over the religious aspect.

Politics on the other hand, I have more of a problem with. But as you said, the work remains the work.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 04 Feb 2019 18:06

I never fed into the hype and gossip surrounding MJ. Regardless, I like a lot of his music and have no second thoughts admitting that.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by vinyl master » 05 Feb 2019 02:18

Nothing wrong with admitting you like MJ...And by the way, he wasn't the ONLY one who produced great dance music in the 80's...

I think that when you become a full-time record collector, you open yourself up to many other beliefs and ways of thinking...I can have my own beliefs, too, but I can also allow great art to move me and find something to like in almost all kinds of music...Or at least, appreciate the musicianship...The key is not to limit oneself and to keep learning and growing...

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by H. callahan » 05 Feb 2019 03:46

davidsss wrote:
04 Feb 2019 08:42
I don't get why Steven Georgiou/Cat Stevens/Yusuf gets mentioned here at all. He converted to Islam, well so what. As an atheist I really don't give a crap. I would think that before his conversion he was maybe Orthodox Christian (Greek background on, I think, his father's side) and again, don't care. I'm sure there's plenty of religions represented in the music I own, that's their choice.
...
I think religion was (way) more important to the public back when he converted in ´77. Having seen some reportage about the Beatles and George Harrison, it was a BIG thing when Harrison joined Hare Krishna and sort of broke loose from Christianity - and when he funded "Life of Brian".
A lot of TV-discussions and think of what happened when John said that the Beatles might be more famous than Jesus.
Today religion doesn´t matter that much any more i guess, i think even Madonna called herself "Madonna" to create some sort of scandal, but it didn´t worked out as well as it would have one or two decades ago.

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by JDJX » 05 Feb 2019 04:44

Of course, the John Lennon comment was taken completely out of context.
He never meant that The Beatles were more important than Christ. It was a condemnation of the public that did not give Christ more attention than the they gave The Beatles.

Thousands flocked to see The Beatles to the point that they were now prisoners of the fan's fanaticism ..... but most of them most likely have never been in a church......or lived by Christian values .
The point was, the public had their priorities all wrong .

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Re: How do you separate the art from the artist?

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 05 Feb 2019 10:09

H. callahan wrote:
05 Feb 2019 03:46
I think religion was (way) more important to the public back when he converted in ´77. Having seen some reportage about the Beatles and George Harrison, it was a BIG thing when Harrison joined Hare Krishna and sort of broke loose from Christianity - and when he funded "Life of Brian".
A lot of TV-discussions and think of what happened when John said that the Beatles might be more famous than Jesus.
Today religion doesn´t matter that much any more i guess, i think even Madonna called herself "Madonna" to create some sort of scandal, but it didn´t worked out as well as it would have one or two decades ago.
Too bad you don't show where you are from because our culture, whether native or learned, influences how we see/understand things. Native or learned because, although I am french, I lived in the USA between the ages of 17 and 53 so that both culture influence me equally in my world and life view.

I was too young to bother with this kind of reflection when either the Cat Stevens conversion to Islam, the George and Krishna thing, or the Beatles being bigger than Christ happened but I sure believe that depending on where you are from, you would have reacted differently.

As far as Cat Stevens is concerned, for exemple, I'm not sure the american people knew much about islam back then. Sure, there were the black moslem movement but that concerned black people and he was white and, how many figured out the relation between moslem and islam? Today, plenty do; but put yourself back in 77...

Now in France, there is the same kind of hate of arabs (and arabs = islam) that I think exists in GB, mostly due to our old colonies. :? But, I also think there may have been a difference between the youth of these two countries. I only think so; I am not a specialist of GB at that time and anyone is welcome to correct me.

Anyway, french youth then was mostly left leaning in an idealistic way (no matter what the reality was) and, if they were shocked by his converting to Islam, they would have kept buying his records because one of the tenets of idealistic left leanings then was tolerance; but no more records came after the announcement...

Meantime in GB, I feel the hate of islam was as prominent among the youth as in the older generations. But I don't want to write a paper and I think most can relate these Cat Stevens ideas to the Beatles events.