I quit, no more new vinyl.

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VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 07 Jan 2019 18:30

audiopile wrote:
06 Jan 2019 18:55
Haven't owned a R2R in 45 years or so -had a excellent 1/2 track 15ips TEAC 7020 back then. I had very good turntables/arms/fresh styli and just couldn't justify copying records to tape.
Long ago when I was a kid I met a couple people who put to tapes every single vinyl they bought so as to preserve the vinyl. Yes, they would play the tapes, never the vinyl. Until the tapes went south (did they ever?) and they would tape the vinyl again.

But studio master tapes are a whole 'nother thing and the oxide shedding is a threat to the history of our music and it's enjoyment in the future.
If there is something we can't preserve for eternity, it's the past. The further we get along, the more there is to preserve and the less money there is to do it with.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by audiopile » 07 Jan 2019 20:21

That's why something that drives the collectors/flippers crazy -"Taped and a date" typically written in ink on a LP's cover -is good news to me at the thrift shop . Cover might be rough -but good chance that LP is as close to unplayed as anything I'll find that month.

milford moore
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by milford moore » 24 Jan 2019 21:34

Hey...I agree with . Buying new vinyl is a crap shoot. I've had to return several in the last two years and it's rather put me off buying anymore new stuff. Yes, I have purchased a couple of new LPs that sound great but the majority have sounded awful. I have albums that I bought in the 1970s - I always take care of my discs - that sound fab to this day. I reckon until there's some serious quality control taking place buying new vinyl will continue to be an iffy thing. (Then there's my personal bug-a-boo: the fact that most recordings are now done digitally and then somehow etched into vinyl. To my mind, what's the point?). Nope, I'll continue to search out original pressings from analog recordings. Speaking of which: I'd really like to get a really nice copy of Jennifer Warnes self-titled 1976 lp on the Arista label. I have a copy but it's not in the best of shape. If anyone in Canada has a VG/VG+/mint copy for sale, let me know. (No offence to y'all down in the U.S.A. but postal/shipping rates from there to Canada are outrageous. Usually way more than the price of the album itself).

Cheers!
milford moore

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Agrippa » 25 Jan 2019 07:08

milford moore wrote:
24 Jan 2019 21:34
Buying new vinyl is a crap shoot.
Hmmm.... I don't think I've bought more than a couple bad new LPs in the last few years, but I've bought a great many really excellent ones. A handful Bert Jansch, John Renbourn and Pentangle re-issues were the latest ones which spring to mind: they sounded as good as any record I've ever bought and had roughly no noise at all.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by hobie1dog » 25 Jan 2019 07:30

I still want to buy the Blood, Sweat and Tears 4 lp in the blue vinyl, but I would settle for a used copy too.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Pauw » 25 Jan 2019 08:20

Somehow, the stories of poor quality within new vinyl purchases is worrying. One of the reasons why people buy vinyl is that it has a great sound. ( There are others but.....) If stories circulate that often a new release is not up to the standards people expect.....they will begin to think.....why buy new vinyl? If they do, vinyl sales will fall and the revival will decline and disappear. It would seem that this will not worry the get rich quick merchants but the people who take it seriously will see this as a problem and it would be advantageous for them to listen to vinyl buyers and try to help then consumer to have a wider range of better quality to buy. :D

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 25 Jan 2019 09:40

Pauw wrote:
25 Jan 2019 08:20
Somehow, the stories of poor quality within new vinyl purchases is worrying...
Not to me, really. I've bought new releases and re-issues (some from cheap collections/series) and have not had a serious problem. Sometimes, the sound is not all that it could be but I've known that since I started buying records close to 50 years ago.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Pauw » 25 Jan 2019 10:26

VinyldechezPierre wrote:
25 Jan 2019 09:40
Pauw wrote:
25 Jan 2019 08:20
Somehow, the stories of poor quality within new vinyl purchases is worrying...
Not to me, really. I've bought new releases and re-issues (some from cheap collections/series) and have not had a serious problem. Sometimes, the sound is not all that it could be but I've known that since I started buying records close to 50 years ago.
I have been buying longer than you....but if this hobby dies ........we will both be the poorer ...... [-X

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 25 Jan 2019 11:06

Pauw wrote:
25 Jan 2019 08:20
Somehow, the stories of poor quality within new vinyl purchases is worrying. One of the reasons why people buy vinyl is that it has a great sound. ( There are others but.....) If stories circulate that often a new release is not up to the standards people expect.....they will begin to think.....why buy new vinyl? If they do, vinyl sales will fall and the revival will decline and disappear. It would seem that this will not worry the get rich quick merchants but the people who take it seriously will see this as a problem and it would be advantageous for them to listen to vinyl buyers and try to help then consumer to have a wider range of better quality to buy. :D
After the 2nd World War, certain products exported from Japan, were certified to a standard, which assured buyers of a level of quality promoting product satisfaction. I'd like to see the LP manufacturing community adopt a standard too. At any rate, for the most part, I'm finished with it, too many new records with too many distracting pops to keep me in the market for new LPs. I'll just get back to buying iTunes downloads and CDs/SACDs for confident pop free pleasure. One more thing, 36 years ago I abandoned LPs for CDs, then sometime around ,I jumped back into LPs having been told that it was great, better than ever. So, why not give it another spin. I did, and now I'm out again, because it is not better, it's the same, it sounds great until it pops.
Last edited by Sterling1 on 25 Jan 2019 11:15, edited 1 time in total.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 25 Jan 2019 11:10

For the time being the vinyl market seems to be doing better than that of the CD.

According to what I heard in the video of the vinyl industry meeting in Detroit 2 years ago, sales of vinyl and vinyl related things are going up. New pressing plants are opening including one by Sony (I believe) in Japan.

Since my last post I realized that my text was a bit off. My purchases are all either large number re-issues or small number self published artists who only put out vinyl.

One thing that worried me at that meeting in Detroit is when someone talked about the fact that all albums today come out in vinyl; from what I remember he was talking of small runs of 2 to 300 copies. That to me is worrisome. Do they do a separate mastering job for the vinyl? That is really needed and if they don't, if they press the vinyl from the same master used for the CD, there could be a problem.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by Sterling1 » 25 Jan 2019 11:19

Sterling1 wrote:
25 Jan 2019 11:06
Pauw wrote:
25 Jan 2019 08:20
Somehow, the stories of poor quality within new vinyl purchases is worrying. One of the reasons why people buy vinyl is that it has a great sound. ( There are others but.....) If stories circulate that often a new release is not up to the standards people expect.....they will begin to think.....why buy new vinyl? If they do, vinyl sales will fall and the revival will decline and disappear. It would seem that this will not worry the get rich quick merchants but the people who take it seriously will see this as a problem and it would be advantageous for them to listen to vinyl buyers and try to help then consumer to have a wider range of better quality to buy. :D
After the 2nd World War, certain products exported from Japan, were certified to a standard, which assured buyers of a level of quality which was sure to satisfy. I'd like to see the LP manufacturing community adopt a standard too. At any rate, for the most part, I'm finished with it, too many new records with too many distracting pops to keep me in the market for new LPs. I'll just get back to buying iTunes downloads and CDs/SACDs for confident pop free and multi-channel music pleasure. One more thing, 36 years ago I abandoned LPs for CDs believing the CD promise of perfect sound, then sometime around 2009, I jumped back into LPs having been told by millennials that it was better than ever, better than CDs. Believing what millennials said was a mistake. After all, what would they know about "better than ever". Nevertheless, I thought, why not give it another spin. I did, and now I'm out again, because what I was told was not truthful, LPs are not better, they're the same, sounding great until pops explode. So, to take a line from The Who, I won't get fooled again.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 25 Jan 2019 16:18

Here is the video I was talking about earlier, I think. Because I didn't watch it again. There were in fact two videos, for sure, and maybe three. Yes, i'm remembering less and less all the time. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm6xqL4UAtY&t=275s

I posted it before in another thread but it won't hurt to have it here too. Also, when searching for it last time, I learned there had been another meeting in 2018 but have found no info on that one.

I seem to remember another one was planned for 2019 and I hope someone will tape/record it for our benefit. It is a pro/industry meeting but, honestly, it is so easy to pass oneself as a member of the crowd...

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by rwortman » 25 Jan 2019 20:57

I have had completely mixed results from new vinyl. I have bought records that were just noisy. Not just the occasional pop or click but continuous background crackle that my 40 year old records don't have. Quality control just isn't that great. These records are mostly being pressed on antique equipment by people that are figuring it out as they go. I've had good ones too. The Bob Dylan mono boxed set is dead flat and dead quiet as is a Rosanne Cash recent release. I don't mind of bit of steady background noise in an Ebay record but it really shouldn't be there in a new pressing. I think by new digitally recorded and mastered music on vinyl is a bit hard to justify. Adding a cutting lathe, pressing plant, cartridge/tonearm/turntable and a phono stage between the D/A converter and your system can't add fidelity and it usually costs a lot more. I'd rather play the digits. On the other hand, analog tapes deteriorate over time. There isn't any way that a new SACD made from a 50+ year old master tape can sound as good as a well cared for LP that was mastered and pressed when the tape was new. It will be quieter, but that's it. I have several examples, one from and audiophile company. I have an SACD of Nat King Cole's "Love is the Thing" (ca1957), a so called "no expenses spared" remastering. I also have a mono LP from around the time it was released. The LP is in good shape with some noise but not enough to distract from the music. The SACD sounds quiet but flat and lifeless compared to the LP. No amount of remastering can replace the signal that was lost from that tape sitting around for over 50 years and the state of the art for magnetic tape was not that well developed yet. Older tape deteriorates faster than tape from the late 60's or 70's. If you like old music, vinyl is still king IF you can find a decent copy. Rock and roll records tend to all be trashed in my experience. Better a compromised CD than a trashed record, although recording and running through software de-clickers can work miracles on some pretty noise LP's. On another positive note, I bought a copy of the 45rpm pressing of Jacintha's "Here's to Ben" and it is stunning. It's from an analog source and it might the the only "audiophile" pressing I have that lives up the the label. I don't have many, because they haven't impressed.

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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by reynolds617 » 25 Jan 2019 21:23

New vinyl is a crap shoot in my experience. It does seem that there are an increasing number of labels/pressing plants which are serious about quality, but you have to do your research to determine which ones put out consistently good product. I have returned a couple re-releases not due to pops and clicks (I wet-clean every album I buy, new or used which eliminates most of that), but due to downright poor sound quality. On some occasions, warping is a factor as well.

I accept the occasional pop and click as part and parcel to the format and living in New England where static is a problem. Most of my records are pretty quiet though thanks to the RCM. It really is a good investment in my view. I've done a before and after test with several records and the difference is night and day in terms of sound quality. It hurt to pay for an RCM up front, but it has paid for itself in my view in terms of improved sound quality for both new and used records.

VinyldechezPierre
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Re: I quit, no more new vinyl.

Post by VinyldechezPierre » 26 Jan 2019 18:29

I will not stop buying vinyl but mostly because I like the object, not because of the sound quality. I have both good and bad vinyl, good and bad CDs. Period.

But when I hold a vinyl cover in my hands it is quite a different experience from that of holding a CD. True, when it's a cheesy cover, who cares? But when it is a beautiful cover, isn't it worth having it 6 to 9 times bigger than the CD's?

Here is my latest buy:
https://i.ibb.co/n0ZwZm4/TZ-Slow-Down.jpg

The colors are much, much better in real life then in the photo. Much more subdued, fitting the music so much better.

Then, reading the cover I find out it is the work of the pianist... Damn, no wonder they fit so well together.

But today, for some reason, I started thinking about the economic differences between vinyl and CDs. I started adding up numbers and I have to admit that CDs won that fight. Easy.

Let's just start with the price difference between the 2 media. And let's remember I mostly buy used. Crap music can be had super cheap on both media but when you are looking for interesting music, it's a different story.

Good CDs can be had for .50 to 2€. Good vinyl ranges between 8 to 15€.

A good CD player can be found for around 70€ while that's about the minimum you will pay for a decent TT. Now, usually, that TT needs to be dismantled, cleaned, put back together at a minimum. Quite a bit of time and time is money. :D

Then, of course, there is the cartridge problem. Yeah, big problem. The least one I would use on one of my TTs goes about 60 to 70€. The one I use on my main TT is about 300€.

Add up those numbers and tell me... vinyl or CD?

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