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Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

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Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 08 Oct 2017 13:05

I'm a new VE member, I'll keep this short. I haven't been on Ebay for a few years and I never realized there was so much Vintage gear on there. I got a good deal on a Dual 1249 that is really clean and well taken care of. I cleaned up the old grease and got the switches moving with just a little lubrication, got a Steurerpimple for it and it didn't want to go on it's post. I did get it on with some spit. Lol.. Everything seems to work on the tonearm except for automatic horizontal movement to the record. It plays the record fine. SP I got may me wrong for a 1249 but to try another would mean ordering a couple of SP's from Germany. I'm wondering if there is still a gummed up lever or post that I have missed. There's a padload of sliders and posts and I may just need to narrow down something I missed. I don't have much tonearm rise just a 16th. of an inch. I don't know if the elavator is supposed to move with the tonearm ?
Any Ideas? I have made 3 or 4 of my own SP's but no automatic horizontal tonearm movement, just manual playing mode. I've got to get a cartridge, mostly P-Mounts online, the Dual sled will need a 1/2 inch cartridge. I read a lot of posts and have minded the "don't mess with the multi-single Tonearm switch" thanks for that tip. I had a new 1249 in 76' and just spinning some old Vinyl again has cheered me up.
Cheers,
Phil
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Tinkaroo » 08 Oct 2017 13:14

Congratulations on your new 1249!

You may find some info of help in this thread.:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=91825&hilit=dual+1249

PS-You may want to look at page 13 in the service manual item "Horizontal tonearm movement shows resistance during set-down.

There is an adjustment sleeve (item 48) and set screw (item 75) that may need adjustment. I needed to adjust them on mine to get the tonearm working properly.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 08 Oct 2017 15:12

Thank you sir, I haven't studied that topic yet.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 08 Oct 2017 18:54

Checked some more links and bars down below and managed to get the tonearm to move 1 inch to the left upon hitting start lever, first horiz. movement yet and at end of record it lifts and moves right about 4"s. Now sometimes when doing a manual start, the motor turns on then right back off when moving the tonearm over to the record, and then the motor will not turn off at all when you hit the Stop lever, just runs and runs. Lol.. The problem seems to be in the 234-670 slide bar and 234-673 distance track, that and the proper setting of the Tonearm Lift +/- position. That knob really tweaks the distance track piece which is messing up the ability of the Steurerpimple to move the tonearm horizt.

Maybe an Arduino Board and 2 arms I could clear out all the junk underneath, save for the motor and it's temperament behavior.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Tinkaroo » 08 Oct 2017 20:58

Guitarzan wrote:Checked some more links and bars down below and managed to get the tonearm to move 1 inch to the left upon hitting start lever, first horiz. movement yet and at end of record it lifts and moves right about 4"s. Now sometimes when doing a manual start, the motor turns on then right back off when moving the tonearm over to the record, and then the motor will not turn off at all when you hit the Stop lever, just runs and runs. Lol.. The problem seems to be in the 234-670 slide bar and 234-673 distance track, that and the proper setting of the Tonearm Lift +/- position. That knob really tweaks the distance track piece which is messing up the ability of the Steurerpimple to move the tonearm horizt.

Maybe an Arduino Board and 2 arms I could clear out all the junk underneath, save for the motor and it's temperament behavior.


I think doing what you propose in the last sentence would be a serious mistake.

If you are willing to be patient and work through the issue then Klaus may be able to help you figure it out. He helped me to sort mine out and it works fabulously now.

It is an excellent turntable and well worth the time to service it properly. Tag onto my previous 1249 Issues thread and take it from there.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 08 Oct 2017 21:22

It's nice to have an old Dual back. I bought a whole system in 75', my first Rig, 10 years later a Divorce Court Judge took a BroadAxe to it and it all got scattered. I got all my old gear back via Ebay. Got some good deals and this Dual will complete my old setup.
Thanks man, the Dude abides.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby DSJR » 09 Oct 2017 14:08

Those 'clean' ones are often the worst, as the deck looks to be original. Amazing how Dual seemed to simplify the mechs as time went on, and they seemed to cycle more quietly too :)

Please persevere with it. I appreciate there's a couple of things needed which are different to the 1229 previous model, but they are related and the tonearm height adjustor is one of them that needs sorting - I wonder if this helps to mess up the positioning situation?

The infamous 'pimpel' is perhaps the most frustrating and the correct grease (Alvania? - from Mrow2 Don) in the correct proportion seems to be the way to go. Too much and the main lever friction surface is too slippery, too little and the new pimpel will be torn to pieces. I think the grease applied here is kind-of self limiting and a few cycles may be all you need to sort it out once correct adjustments are made. On the 1229 anyway, as well as others using this tonearm lifting arrangement, the little thumb-nut at the top of the cueing 'stud' assembly needs to be set properly, otherwise the lifting pin pushes the arm up hard on it's height restrictor and the arm effectively jams in one position. When the mechanism is manually cycled to lift the arm fully up, there should usually be a hairs breadth of free vertical tonearm movement before the arm contacts the max-height adjustor. I'm not good with words, and don't have a 1249 here, but look at fig 15 in the service manual and the lifting assembly '51.' The thumb nut is at the top with the arm height restrictor to the right of it and vaguely 'nut' shaped...

As Tinkaroo said, a lovely old deck and well worth fettling as a top notch auto deck, even just for single records. Auto-changing 7" singles can be fun as well and a more tolerant cartridge is a boon for this here (I use a Rega Carbon, which is a posh AT91, tracking at 1.8g, as it has a good conical tip which is less critical of tonearm VTA as this changes with the stack height and it's a great match to these Dual tonearms)
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 09 Oct 2017 16:18

Thanks. I worked on it for a while this morning tightened a screw post that holds the skating spring and it setteled the tonearm base so it doesn't wiggle so much. It is playing well just not much automatic action. I use to start my old one by grabbing the Headshell handle and moving it left to start it, this one starts but an inch away from the record edge something grabs it by the BooBoo and feels like it's going to rip the Yammy Ya ya's out of the tonearm base. Took the sub platter off and inspected the shutoff bar, it's nice and clean and no apparent binding. I only saw one ball though, must have 2 strikes against him.
Cheers!
Phil
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby DSJR » 09 Oct 2017 17:11

All I can ask you to do is disconnect from the mains, remove the chassis from the plinth, up-end it and move the arm to see what the heck is happening around the switch linkage!

Sorry, I can't currently explain it better. Reading your description again, it looks like it's in the switch linkages rather than the above. I don't know the precise procedure for the 1249, but moving the arm from the rest should engage the linkages to switch the motor on and these have a gentle but positive action with a kind-of 'shclick' noise to tell you the linkages have engaged. Same when the arm is back on the rest and a similar 'shclunk' noise when the links disengage (even the 505 models do it) - sounds daft reading this back, but all Dual owners will know what I mean as almost all do it when stopping if not the 10** series when manual starting.

Don't feel bad our Duals only have one shut-off ball each - it's all they need ;) (Poor excuse at humour by an Aspergic Brit - apologies :roll: )
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 09 Oct 2017 17:55

This is promising, it just played an album all the way through with no skips on a 40 year old record, then at the end it lifted up moved right to the beginning track, then lowered and played it again like it was in infinite mode. But it is set to 1 play. ? I keep letting it play, maybe it will remember how it is supposed to work. Promising indeed. Yes just one shiny ball.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Tinkaroo » 10 Oct 2017 11:08

Guitarzan wrote:This is promising, it just played an album all the way through with no skips on a 40 year old record, then at the end it lifted up moved right to the beginning track, then lowered and played it again like it was in infinite mode. But it is set to 1 play. ? I keep letting it play, maybe it will remember how it is supposed to work. Promising indeed. Yes just one shiny ball.


That sounds promising, but the repeat playing suggests that the mechanisms may need cleaning and reapplication of the proper lubricant (not too much lubricant though). I think Klaus may have a photo tutorial on servicing the 1249 on his website.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0yc1yyn0ep5q ... vzCaa?dl=0

Another thing with the single/repeat switch is that there is a straight metal spring that goes from the single/repeat knob to the switching mechanism underneath and sometimes that can get dislodged in shipping or if the unit is jarred. See if that is in place and working.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 10 Oct 2017 15:53

Thank you sir, great photo's that I needed to see, especially the Tonearm base/elavator parts below deck. Seems to be OK on my TT but the tonearm actually doing a full return and repeating the record was amazing, to my walnut sized brain anyway. The tonearm headshell is like this on startup though. ](*,) It gets to the record edge and is like hitting a curb with your car, and jumping a curb will ruin a tire. I'm leery of breaking a part, so I very carefully check things.
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby DSJR » 10 Oct 2017 19:32

Nothing like removing the top platter and lifting the right hand side of the deck up so you can see the tonearm linkage 'segments,' manually take the arm from its rest and watch what's binding where when it appears to jam at the 12" position. is it fine with cueing lever 'down' or is it every time?




Check the main underside cueing/indexing lever 253 (fig 15 in the service manual). Methinks it could be set to lift too high and the indexing part at the tonearm end is binding on the tonearm linkage segments because it's lifting slightly too high? if the cueing height is lowered slightly with knob 66, if my hunch is right, the arm won't jam on the 12" position with the cueing lever raised. If the cueing height isn't high enough now but everything else works, then adjust thumb-nut at the top of '51' to correct this. PLEASE ONLY do this if the lever 253 is seen to be out of adjustment. I don't know this deck properly, so am using some knowledge from related models in the hope I'm somewhere near right and I pray I'm not misleading you to put the thing totally out of adjustment - it's a simple mechanism really, all told, but parts need to be in alignment for the magic to happen properly...
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Re: Nice new Dual 1249 Surprise!

Postby Guitarzan » 10 Oct 2017 21:26

Yes there's a lot going on with bar 253, it controls many things and has to be adjusted properly. I'm beginning to see all the effects the adjustments to it have when a knob is turned. I'm getting good tonearm lift now and no skipping of the records through an entire album. The tonearm now lifts at the end of the record and moves to beginning of record and replays all over again, something it can't do when the Start Lever is engaged. It hits a wall at a half inch of the record and can't move any closer to the record, unless I manually help it.
I'm really happy with it now, even the cartridge that came with is still works, an old Empire 2000 from the 70's still plays. I do have an AT95E coming to get me started with new cartridge. Thanks for the tips, it's come a long way from where it started.
Cheers!
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