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Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired speed

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Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired speed

Postby jasperv » 04 Oct 2017 01:00

Dear all,

I wonder if this is a familiar problem. When i have my pitch control indicator in the middle position, my tt plays the records way too slow. When I put the pitch control on its highest position it almost plays my records on an accurate speed. Any ideas if this could be adjusted so that it plays my records accurately while the pitch control indicator is positioned somewhat in the middle? I'm thinking that the cause of the slower speed might indicate that the motor needs lubrication / maintenance. Any ideas experiences?

thanx!

Jasper
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby plexi » 05 Oct 2017 10:55

I am new to duals but from tinkering with mine, I think you can put a washer under idler wheel and this will adjust the starting speed and this would help you get it more in line so that when fine control is in middle it will be more 33 rpm...in your situation, being too slow, i think that means the idler wheel is hitting too low (on the fatter section of the idler spindle) so you would need a thin washer or two placed under the idler wheel so that it raises up a bit towards the thinner end of the taper. To get at the idler wheel bottom, carefully pry up the tiny clear cream colored washer atop the wheel and the wheel pops off...I could be way off on this so best wait for more confirmation but that is what i would try. but then again many things i try end up broken so .......
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby Hugues TR4 » 05 Oct 2017 15:49

The right adjustment can be made just by loosening the little screw on the side of the pulley and adjust the pulley height on the motor axle.
A bit of a PITA, as you have to work by trial and to remove and refit the platter every time, but once it's right, it remains so for good.
Do not forget to set the pitch control knob in the middle of the scale before you start.
Be careful not to scratch the surface of the pulley with your screwdriver.
Hope it's clear enough.
Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby Spinner45 » 05 Oct 2017 16:18

plexi wrote:I am new to duals but from tinkering with mine, I think you can put a washer under idler wheel and this will adjust the starting speed and this would help you get it more in line so that when fine control is in middle it will be more 33 rpm...in your situation, being too slow, i think that means the idler wheel is hitting too low (on the fatter section of the idler spindle) so you would need a thin washer or two placed under the idler wheel so that it raises up a bit towards the thinner end of the taper. To get at the idler wheel bottom, carefully pry up the tiny clear cream colored washer atop the wheel and the wheel pops off...I could be way off on this so best wait for more confirmation but that is what i would try. but then again many things i try end up broken so .......


Your thinking is backwards, because raising the idler results in a slower speed.
Best to refer to the service manual for the proper adjustment procedure.
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby jasperv » 05 Oct 2017 17:15

Thank you all! That sounds helpful. I'll open my dual again this eve and see if i can get somewhere with it now. I actually didn't know that the height of the pulley regulates the speed, but it makes a lot of sense now I know it does. I'll keep you updated!

Jasper
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby jasperv » 06 Oct 2017 00:10

Hugues TR4 wrote:The right adjustment can be made just by loosening the little screw on the side of the pulley and adjust the pulley height on the motor axle.
A bit of a PITA, as you have to work by trial and to remove and refit the platter every time, but once it's right, it remains so for good.
Do not forget to set the pitch control knob in the middle of the scale before you start.
Be careful not to scratch the surface of the pulley with your screwdriver.
Hope it's clear enough.
Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.



Thanx Hugues! That worked perfectly for me :D . A slight movement up of the pulley made it spin a lot faster. It was easier than I thought. And you are right, I had to do a bit of trial and error, but now it should be more accurate for good. Thanx!

Now I opened my Dual again I thought I'd have a look at the motor, because I think it might need some lubrication. I took the motor out, but didn't manage to take the two motor halves apart. It seems quite stuck. Maybe I'll try to get a snap ring tool to put more pressure between the two halves.

Anyways, the pitch control problem is solved. I'm very pleased :) thanx for your help.

greetings,

Jasper
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby Hugues TR4 » 06 Oct 2017 09:09

Glad you managed to get your speed right.
An alternative to the snap ring tool could be the use of a piece of hard wood and a hammer on the rim of the motor halves and tap gently all round. It might move by tiny bits only, but at least for me, it worked. Be careful not to force and bend the rotor axle.
The snap ring tool is the best (and recommended) solution though.
Good work!

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
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RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby jasperv » 15 Oct 2017 23:49

Hi Hugh,

Just wanted to update you. The snap ring was indeed the perfect tool to open the motor. I found it quite scary having the motor opened, not knowing if I'd ever get it back properly.
I cleaned the insights with some cotton buds, got rid of a tiny dead spider and its web and put a few drops of light machine in the top- and bottom shaft of the rotor (as was suggested by Dualcan and Jiruyelle's Servicing Dual Motors manual). I didn't disassemble and clean the bottom bearing, because it would require me to drill out the pop rivet (I do not even own a drill). Nevertheless, it all worked out perfectly. The motor spins very smooth and quietly. I'm very pleased with the result.

greetz,

Jasper
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby Hugues TR4 » 16 Oct 2017 08:51

Hi Jasper,

Congrats for making your 1019 fully operational again!
Pity you didn't have the opportunity to open the bearing, that would have got you a TT in top working condition for a long time.
The only thing now is to keep your fingers crossed so that the oil you added is compatible with the old one and doesn't cause any chemical reaction...
Only time will tell: your motor could intermittently make a clicking noise, and then you will know it needs a complete bearing cleaning.
But if I were you, I would not wait until then! As you've seen in the manual, the procedure is very easy. You could always borrow a small drill, the whole process would take you about 50 minutes, just follow Klaus' guide.
Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
Marantz Mod 6170/Marantz E 5000 cart
RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby jasperv » 16 Oct 2017 23:39

Thnx again for your advice Hugh. It's actually already ten days ago since I opened the motor, cleaned it and put some oil in it. Since then it works perfectly. I'm not sure if I should open it again. But on the other hand, as you said, cleaning the bearing would make it in top working condition for a long time and would make me more confident about its performance in the future. You think its easy to find some tiny screws to replace the pop rivets? Also, is it easy to drill out these rivets? I actually never used a drill before..

greetz,

Jasper
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby Spinner45 » 17 Oct 2017 08:30

jasperv wrote:Thnx again for your advice Hugh. It's actually already ten days ago since I opened the motor, cleaned it and put some oil in it. Since then it works perfectly. I'm not sure if I should open it again. But on the other hand, as you said, cleaning the bearing would make it in top working condition for a long time and would make me more confident about its performance in the future. You think its easy to find some tiny screws to replace the pop rivets? Also, is it easy to drill out these rivets? I actually never used a drill before..

greetz,

Jasper


Best left alone, because accuracy and care is needed for such things.
Not familier with power tools is asking for trouble.
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby DSJR » 17 Oct 2017 08:34

Main issue could be old and new oils chemically reacting, but so far, I haven't had this happen (it's three years since I rebuilt my 1214 and it's in storage for much of that time). As long as the motor pulley, idler and platter spin freely, you'll be alright I guess.
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Re: Pitch control of my 1009 doesn't reach the desired spee

Postby jasperv » 17 Oct 2017 21:37

Thanx guys,

I agree. I'll better leave it the way it is, since all is working fine now. If at some point i'll experience trouble with the motor I know what to look for. Hopefully all will stay good.

Jasper
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