Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

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conn250
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Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by conn250 » 23 Sep 2017 22:44

I'm thinking about getting a weight for a few slightly warped records I have. I did a little research and learned that it's always advisable to use a weight depending on the turntable you have. It might damage the motor or create noise. Would it be ok to use one on a Dual 1219? It's direct drive if that matters. Also, how do you know how much weight it can support?

Spinner45
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1

Post by Spinner45 » 23 Sep 2017 23:45

conn250 wrote:I'm thinking about getting a weight for a few slightly warped records I have. I did a little research and learned that it's always advisable to use a weight depending on the turntable you have. It might damage the motor or create noise. Would it be ok to use one on a Dual 1219? It's direct drive if that matters. Also, how do you know how much weight it can support?
The Dual 1219 is "idler drive", not "direct drive".
The 1219's cast aluminum alloy platter weighs about 7 pounds, is one of the heaviest around, and additional dead weight is not good for the ball bearing race and thrust washers underneath.

Slightly warped records always played just fine on those, no need for weights.
No one ever needed weights before.
So don't listen to that all that "research" because it will make you paranoid, nervous, and crazy.
AKA don't trust everything you read on the internet.

ren2112
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1

Post by ren2112 » 26 Sep 2017 23:30

I've been using this one I got from http://www.esotericsound.com for the last 2-3 yrs on my 1229 with no issue. I won't colour you experience, try it and judge for yourself.
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JaBK
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1

Post by JaBK » 27 Sep 2017 12:31

FWIW I have heard subtle but clear improvements to detail when using a light weight (about 200 grams) puck made out of black acrylic with a grippy sorbothane underside that is designed to cling to the record label area and dampen vibrations. It is made in the UK, called " 'the revolution' soft clamp ".
It will not un-warp any records, but it will not hurt any bearings either.

mchaj
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by mchaj » 22 Mar 2019 01:42

[late to the conversation...I know but i just got a 1219 and i'm using a weight]

Just spitballin' here but, on one hand, these Duals were built like tanks, and clearly, if we're still using them 50 years later, with original parts, what's an extra 200 grams gonna do? The 1219 was made to deal with automatic play featuring multiple record stacks. If you were to take advantage of that feature, and play 3 records for instance, the 2 in waiting would weigh more than that weight anyway. I can't see how those awesome German engineers wouldn't have allowed for that? So a 200 gram weight should be ok, no?
On the other hand, though, if it's a 50 year old TT, it may just be due for a breakdown. Those idler motors are 'unique', and not always readily available.

Spinner45
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by Spinner45 » 22 Mar 2019 03:27

mchaj wrote:
22 Mar 2019 01:42
[late to the conversation...I know but i just got a 1219 and i'm using a weight]

Just spitballin' here but, on one hand, these Duals were built like tanks, and clearly, if we're still using them 50 years later, with original parts, what's an extra 200 grams gonna do? The 1219 was made to deal with automatic play featuring multiple record stacks. If you were to take advantage of that feature, and play 3 records for instance, the 2 in waiting would weigh more than that weight anyway. I can't see how those awesome German engineers wouldn't have allowed for that? So a 200 gram weight should be ok, no?
On the other hand, though, if it's a 50 year old TT, it may just be due for a breakdown. Those idler motors are 'unique', and not always readily available.
And.... those "awesome German engineers" designed them to not need any "help" in playing a record or records.

T68
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by T68 » 22 Mar 2019 06:53

Yes, those German engineers who decided that the turn signal on my BMW R1150R MC needs three buttons instead of one.... :-)

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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by analoged » 23 Mar 2019 21:54

T68 wrote:
22 Mar 2019 06:53
Yes, those German engineers who decided that the turn signal on my BMW R1150R MC needs three buttons instead of one.... :-)
Well,I had a new 1978 R80/7,it had a single lever,thumb operated .It was a down right ,up lefting experience(stolen from a period cycle mag at the time).It was the absolute best way to do it I thought....
Everyone else hated it.

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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by DSJR » 23 Mar 2019 23:49

Can we use some modern knowledge please chaps?

No essay this time, but some added support at disc centre would be beneficial subjectively to old Duals (there's a pic of what I do in my gallery). This plus an added thin cork or similar mat on top of the Dual one (my fave is the Notts Analogue Spacemat, but it may be difficult to source) is probably more than enough. Records do seem to prefer centre support over the edge in my experience and my solution is either free or fairly cheap and easily removed, so as not to damage the deck itself in any way ;)...

Adding a weight - Sledgehammer of tractor proportions to crack a walnut in my experience, but the 1219 was designed to take a stack of 78's safely, so not a major loading or wear issue really. I just laugh now when I see these mostly needless audiophile 'solutions' added all but blindly.

Much work has been done in terms of record support since Dual abandoned idler drives in the mid to late 70's and the 505-2 mat became flat with a very shallow dip where the label is. The existing stuck-on mat does a splendid job of damping out the platter, but take care and put thought into it first before audiophile mentality and think how the record will be bowed under the centre weight and what this does to channel balance on the cartridge for instance - please...

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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by Solist » 26 Mar 2019 18:08

Use a weight if you want, you can even experiment with different weights and hear if anything changes. I would not worry using a heavy weight on a idler turntable mainly because of the 3kg platter. If a bearing can take that it will work fine with another 0,5kg on top of it. Dont forget that its a changer so it was designed with the extra load in mind.

The problem is that the mat is not straight which will cause the vinyl to dish if you use a weight. You can get around that by putting another thick (180g) lp as a mat to minimize the effect.

paulrenea
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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by paulrenea » 27 Mar 2019 03:02

I would think that a weighted outer ring would serve better than a middle of record weight. Edge warp is the more common problem with tone-arm hop.

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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by Straker62 » 27 Mar 2019 22:03

Perhaps the J.A. Michell record clamp (not affiliated) could be a solution: not heavy and seems quite effective against warped records.

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Re: Question about using a record/platter weight on a Dual 1219

Post by Robbie_uC » 24 Jun 2019 07:43

I have two dual idlers. No weights used. However, I have heard a 1219 with a light weight and there really isn't a difference in tone. The great thing about the 1219/1229 is that you really don't need to modify or add anything - they sound excellent and elegant right out of the box.

Currently I'm running an Audio Technica VM95ML cartridge (which mates beautifully with this deck). IMHO, your money is better invested in a cart like this that costs under $200. I cannot recommend this cart enough for these Dual TT's (The Shibata version is great too)

Anyways, if you feel a weight is necessary because of some record warps, make sure it is on the lighter side, and I believe this was mentioned previously, but you may need to change the mat, as the stock rubber mat does not make contact with the record near the spindle. In this case, a heavy weight may actually cause more damage than good.

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