Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

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pwreimers
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Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 27 Apr 2017 19:40

Twice now I've sheared off the tonearm pin that holds the lever to engage the cartridge carrier (sled) to the tonearm. The first time, my grandson had 'ticked' the arm and I thought it was due to that. But yesterday, while mounting my aftermarket sled, it sheared off again, dropping the lever arm, washers and retaining ring (holding the sheared off pin piece).

Another user found the same issue, using an aftermarket sled:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=82232&hilit=medal#p676452

There is a manufacturing problem with it: The after-market carrier differs from the Dual design at the front and center thickness. The after-market is about 2 mm thick while on the Dual thickness there is just over 1 mm of carrier material.

What this means is that to rotate the insertion lever, the engagement tongue must overcome much more thickness to finish rotating the lever. I am stunned the seller made it this way as it's easy to see the problem.

38070

Anybody who's encountered this problem knows how difficult this is to repair.

I am hoping that by posting this, I can help fellow Dual users who have the aftermarket sled.

If, by chance, you have one of these that matches the original Dual design, please let us know. Perhaps the maker has changed their design.

During my investigation, I did some basic measurements of those pins that replace the sled contact fingers. To depress one pin to the sled top height took about 100 grams, and to depress the Dual design took about 40. The Dual design center finger took about 100 grams. To depress all of them, Dual takes about 240 grams and the aftermarket takes about 500; this is approximately double.

The finger/pin difference is not a deal breaker, probably. But the fabrication thickness difference at the center front is a huge problem.

If I am stepping on any VinylEngine Forum posting guidelines, please let me know so I can edit the post to remain in good standing; I value this forum immensely.

Lastly, I developed a repair and photographed it. I'll post those notes separately.

Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Tinkaroo » 27 Apr 2017 19:54

I also have one of these aftermarket headshells and even though it was a couple of years ago, I do recall encountering some impediment to the locking mechanism rotation.

Thankfully mine didn't break, but there is obviously a problem with the design and the material being too thick at the location mentioned. The thickness difference is more obvious if seen with the naked eye.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 27 Apr 2017 20:59

This picture might be clearer...

38072

I have to get the reflection just right. The original might be better. If you have one of these aftermarket sleds, it's real easy to compare them side-by-side to see the difference.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 28 Apr 2017 14:12

pwreimers wrote:Twice now I've sheared off the tonearm pin that holds the lever to engage the cartridge carrier (sled) to the tonearm. The first time, my grandson had 'ticked' the arm and I thought it was due to that. But yesterday, while mounting my aftermarket sled, it sheared off again, dropping the lever arm, washers and retaining ring (holding the sheared off pin piece).

Another user found the same issue, using an aftermarket sled:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=82232&hilit=medal#p676452
Hi Pete,

I'm the user you cite above, so if it is just you and me, it's not an epidemic yet. I am principally using 1019s now and I do worry about the pin breaking off. The 1015 tonearm looks like it might be a little easier to uncover to reveal where to drill it out than the 1019. There is an aluminum fascia that can be carefully peeled away. I haven't tried to evaluate how to dismantle the outer casing of the 1019 head. But honestly, that seems like it is the worst part of the work. The repair as I did it seems much more robust. I don't think Dual thought we'd be switching carts all the time on these machines, or that a cartridge sled that is in many ways superior to theirs would come along.

But I think you've identified a real problem with the after-market sleds. (I also think that the aftermarket sleds don't fit quite perfectly at the rear.) But when they do work, they really work well. I've used two different versions of these sleds. Pat Leaver's seems a trifle better to me, but they both have the problem you point out.

A tiny grinding wheel on a Dremel and a steady hand might fix the problem. But one hates to buy a thing that costs $40 new and then start grinding on it first thing.

As Rosanne Rosannadanna used to say, "There's always something."

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by spensar » 28 Apr 2017 17:49

Very unfortunate to read about. Have you provided comments to the seller? I understand that these are 3D printed so it should be very fixable unless it is to thin for the machine used. For the price paid you shouldn't need to repair these but snit happens.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 28 Apr 2017 23:31

spensar wrote:Very unfortunate to read about. Have you provided comments to the seller? I understand that these are 3D printed so it should be very fixable unless it is to thin for the machine used. For the price paid you shouldn't need to repair these but snit happens.
I guess I didn't lock on to the problem until Pete pointed it out. I just assumed the aftermarket sleds were somehow tighter because they are newer, or something like that, and did not look carefully at them. I figured my 1015 tonearm pin/shaft broke because it had been used a lot already in life. There is certainly truth to that. I don't think the new sleds broke it, but they might have accelerated the inevitable.

My guess is that you're right, making it thin right there is a hard thing to do.

I may send a note to Pat Leaver about it and see what he has to say. I hope I can send a link to Pete's photos.

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 29 Apr 2017 06:41

spensar wrote:Very unfortunate to read about. Have you provided comments to the seller? I understand that these are 3D printed so it should be very fixable unless it is to thin for the machine used. For the price paid you shouldn't need to repair these but snit happens.
I did comment to the seller and they were silent about the real problem. Separately I'd let them know about the pin depression force requirements and they acknowledged that, but said nothing about the thick section. I presume if they did, they would then imply their own liability for breaking the tonearm pivot pin. It is a real pita to repair the broken pin and can result in a useful turntable being scrapped altogether or sold for parts.

The 3D 'printer' fabrication devices can make thin sections, easily half a mm and certainly 1.2 mm.

I paid almost $50, including the shipping.
Last edited by pwreimers on 29 Apr 2017 06:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 29 Apr 2017 06:52

jdubbie wrote: ...I just assumed the aftermarket sleds were somehow tighter because they are newer, or something like that, and did not look carefully at them. I figured my 1015 tonearm pin/shaft broke because it had been used a lot already in life. There is certainly truth to that. I don't think the new sleds broke it, but they might have accelerated the inevitable....
I may send a note to Pat Leaver about it and see what he has to say. I hope I can send a link to Pete's photos.
jdubbie
Like you, I assumed they did it right and did not look closely until the second broken pin.

If that pin is not stressed, it will not ever break. If they had made it 5% thicker, we would not be having this conversation; this is at least 60% thicker! The after-market sled broke it, plain and simple.

I did send the photo to Pat Leaver and they did not comment.

Regards,
Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 29 Apr 2017 13:07

pwreimers wrote:
I did send the photo to Pat Leaver and they did not comment.

Regards,
Pete
I'll see if we can get a comment from the other seller I've used.

I look forward to learning more about your fix for the tonearm post since the 1019 shell is different from the 1015.

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 29 Apr 2017 17:42

jdubbie wrote:
As Rosanne Rosannadanna used to say, "There's always something."

jdubbie
Great memories! And, no foolin'! My Dual 1015's work like a champ for long periods, then, there's always something.
jdubbie wrote:
I look forward to learning more about your fix for the tonearm post since the 1019 shell is different from the 1015.

jdubbie
I've not studied the 1019 tonearm yet. I'd think some of the technique I used would work. I should have the writeup next week. I have two of my three 1015's functional and am closing in on a small problem the last one has.

Thanks jdubbie!
Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by DSJR » 30 Apr 2017 10:17

Thanks for this thread. I've got my 1019 working beautifully now and was considering an extra carrier or two. There are two for sale I see and the main difference is seemingly to be in the wiring and cartridge tags.

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by pwreimers » 01 May 2017 06:02

DSJR wrote:Thanks for this thread. I've got my 1019 working beautifully now and was considering an extra carrier or two. There are two for sale I see and the main difference is seemingly to be in the wiring and cartridge tags.
You're welcome! I love these turntables when they're 'working beautifully' especially because of all the mechanisms I know are beneath the platter.

I know I purchased my after market carrier when I was anxious, and I was to 'permissive' when I encountered difficulties rotating the lever to mount the carrier. I hope the seller recognizes their error and changes design so future users can purchase with confidence.

Here in the US, I don't see any original equipment carriers from Dual for the 1015/1019 machines. They do come up, though.

I'm puzzled by your reference to the carrier 'wiring and cartridge tags' and hope you'll help me understand your meaning.

Pete

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by DSJR » 01 May 2017 10:04

Here's one -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332171448404? ... EBIDX%3AIT

And the other -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pats-Audio-TK ... SwDk5ULiW5

Not sure if the carriers are identical...

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by jdubbie » 01 May 2017 13:34

DSJR wrote:Here's one -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332171448404? ... EBIDX%3AIT

And the other -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pats-Audio-TK ... SwDk5ULiW5

Not sure if the carriers are identical...
I have one of each. They are very close, though they seem not quite identical. Something slightly different about the wires and the fit and finish. I like Pat Leaver's slightly better. However, they are identical in having that addition thickness they should not have.

I looked at one of mine carefully, wondering if I could Dremel some of the material to reduce the thickness of that little shelf. It would take a micro-Dremel, unfortunately. Or a friendly dentist ...

jdubbie

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Re: Dual 1015/1019 Aftermarket Headshell Problems

Post by Tinkaroo » 01 May 2017 14:07

I don't think it could be fixed with a dremel. A dentist would be too expensive and would probably want to work on your teeth just for the torture and extra profit aspect of it. :wink:

I won't be buying any more of these unless they fix this engineering defect, since the risk of damage far outweighs any benefits.

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