the home of the turntable

Isoflex PDP 40 replacement

twice the fun

Isoflex PDP 40 replacement

Postby guuus » 06 Feb 2017 04:49

Hi
I got a Dual 1229 and I want to give it a try to clean it up and re-oil.
I know this topic has been talked about a lot and there is no clear replacement.

Does anybody taken a look at Aeroshell Turbine oil 500 ?

Is a synthetic ester oil with very similar specs as the Isoflex PDP 40

http://globalindustrialsolutions.net/pr ... data-sheet

However it mentions some incompatibility with some plastics and gaskets. I have not dissembled my dual yet so I am not sure if there are any plastics or gaskets that contact the oil, so I wonder if anybody has taken a look at this alternative.

regards
guuus
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 Feb 2017 21:01

United States of America

Re: Isoflex PDP 40 replacement

Postby guuus » 17 Feb 2017 02:04

My Conclussions:
• It seems the most similar to Isoflex PDP 40 is Aeroshell Turbine Oil 500 (viscosity 23 mm2/s), Isoflex is very timid in their references to plastics but it seems all synthetic ester oils are bad for plastics.
• It seems the most similar to Shell Clavus 17 is Mobil Velocite #10 (22 mm2/s viscosity)
• The 1229 motor has 2 felt washers, not sure the effects of the Aeroshell on those. There seems not to be plastic parts near the motor.
• Since Isoflex mentions that "ISOFLEX PDP oils are miscible with mineral oils. However, we recommend removing the used oil from the lubrication point in order to fully utilize the performance of these oils" I will choose Velocite.


Klueber Isoflex PDP 40:
Type : Ester Oil
Service temp : -50 to 100 C
Density : 0.92 g/cm3 at 20 C
Viscosity : 19.0 mm2/s at 40 C and 5.0 mm2/s at 100 C

ISOFLEX PDP oils are synthetic long-term oils based on ester oil. They show a good viscosity-temperature behavior, a high flash point, a low pour point, good aging and oxidation stability as well as corrosion protection. Compared to mineral oils, they hardly change their viscosity at low or high temperatures thus ensuring less decrease in performance and reduced power consumption.

Benefits for your application
• Synthetic long-term oils
• Wide service temperature range
• Low pour point
• Good viscosity-temperature behavior.
• Oxidation and aging stability
• Good corrosion protection

Plastics compatibility:
There is no data regarding plastics, they only mention this in the specs:
"Application notes
ISOFLEX PDP oils are neutral towards metals. Due to the great variety of different elastomers and plastics, their compatibility with these oils has to be checked prior to series application.
ISOFLEX PDP oils are miscible with mineral oils. However, we recommend removing the used oil from the lubrication point in order to fully utilize the performance of these oils."



Shell Clavus 17:
The Dual 10xx series used Shell Clavus 17 before Dual changed to the Isoflex, the specs for Clavus are:

• High quality base oils
• Shell Clavus are high quality, naphthenic mineral oils without additives.
• Very good stability, The specific selection of the base oils provides in very good chemical stability in contact with ammonia as refrigerant, very good oxidative stability and in good thermal stability.
• Viscosity at 40C : 17 mm2/s
• It seems the 17 version is discontinued, these are the ones provided now:
• Dualcan said that:
"Since my stock of isoflex is depleted, I returned to the previous motor oil uses by Dual, which is Shell clavus 17. This is in the same viscosity range but is a mineral oil". For a good overview of oil types this could be helpful:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... oil-groups
If changing oil types, it is imperative to clean the sintered brass bushings on top and bottom- thoroughly. I place these into lacquer thinner to make sure they are clean before applying a different oil; and yes, latex gloves are very good to avoid body acid contamination of the drive parts-including belts, idlers etc."
Pasted from <https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=81692>

NOTES:
• Many turntables notably Technics SL1200 use Anderol 500 for their bearings however this has a viscosity of 100 therefore not suitable or not comparable to replace Isoflex PDP.
• There is Mobil Sintered Bearing Oil but they start at viscosity 32 mm2/s
• Amsoil Compressor Oil has also been suggested but it also starts at 32 mm2/s
guuus
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 Feb 2017 21:01

United States of America

Re: Isoflex PDP 40 replacement

Postby dualcan » 17 Feb 2017 16:25

Hi,
Thanks for your detailed analysis of these lubricants. This is a good analytical look at these lubes.
The problem is always to get small quantities of any lube. Klueber isoflex (Dual lube 5) for instance, is available but, as I had previously indicated, the stuff costs over $300.00/litre...
Many other good suggestions are available in one spot, but not another. That was the reason we settled on Singer sewing machine oil for the Motor Service Guide; its pretty well universally available. The 10W30/40(lube 3) is a no-brainer. As far as lube 2- renotac (tacky or adhesive oil) this oil needs to stay in place in vertical locations. The chainsaw oil is a simple answer. As far as compatibility is concerned, the ground rule is thorough cleaning with alcohol/lacquer thinner or what ever means suitable to get the old stuff completely removed. If this is overlooked, chemical reaction will play havoc- it's just a matter of time. Compatibility with plastic/rubber is also an issue for the lubes. Generally an indication that the product is safe on plastic will suffice.
Some folks here took the trouble to get a larger quantity of lubes and re packaged them for end users. Don (mrow2) has done that for the Shell Alvania-2 grease.
Fred from Dualfred has put together an nice kit:
http://www.dualfred.de/Switch--Poti--Pl ... 31-en.html
He has also used the Dual lube numbering system, which greatly reduces the chance of using the wrong type. Each service manual from Dual/Steidinger has a lube chart and uses these lube numbers consistently.
Regards,
k
Klaus Adlhoch, fmr. Assistant Service Manager,
Noresco -N.Q.I.-Dual of Canada,
Area of expertise: Tech Training and Consumer Service P.R.
Associated with Dual till Thompson era.
Favorite Duals: TG 12a, 1009, 721.
User avatar
dualcan
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 2832
Images: 88
Joined: 15 Nov 2013 23:53
Location: Sorel-Tracy Quebec

Canada

Re: Isoflex PDP 40 replacement

Postby guuus » 17 Feb 2017 20:23

Hi,
Thanks a lot for the feedback, wish I knew about dualfred before.
In any if anybody is interested, I was able to get both mobile vacuoline and velocite online in 16 oz containers using this site. (I just placed my first order but seems to be well known, if you are into oils that is :-) )

http://www.brwtechnologies.com/
guuus
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 Feb 2017 21:01

United States of America

Return to Dual