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Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

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Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 07 Jan 2017 03:30

I picked up a Dual 1009F recently. I am very impressed, it has all the metal parts, feels more solid than the 1029. Anyway, I ordered the new headshell (the table had missing headshell); re-greased the motor bushings; cleaned out most of the hardened old grease underneath. All it seems working nicely, except when I sliced to stop, the arm moved above the armrest, but the engaged back in the start (playing) again. Similar to the auto stop at end of the record. The manual stop when moving the arm by hand works fine.

Any idea what could be the problem?
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby DSJR » 07 Jan 2017 11:33

Sorry to repeat the same old mantras here, but it's probably a combination of the positioning 'pimpel' and/or especially the start-stop lever on the main cam - part 152 diagram 17 in the service manual for the 1009sk, which should be free to pivot each way on it's tiny spring which is easily lost. At this point, I doubt it's an adjustment needed, as these things have worked fine for decades, so almost certainly this part is tight on its pivot. Dualcan Klaus has chapter and verse on servicing these cams (all auto Duals are related in principle even if the parts are slightly different from model to model). I've been able to deal with mine without removing this lever (the tiny spring goes awol) but if it's stuck pretty solid, more drastic action will be needed.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 07 Jan 2017 15:30

By observing the motion in change and stop mode, I agree that the cam follower level (part 152) is the key here. But it doesn't seem to be stuck on mine, I can see it moving to the inner side (to allow the main level engage in the stopping groove from outer groove), however, my main level seems to be determined to go in the restart position, it actually pushed the #152 aside and travelled in the inner groove.

On a related question, is the main level mounting bracket (#188 on the same manual) supposed to be pivot or fixed, in other words the #192 screw should be tight?
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby dualcan » 07 Jan 2017 16:58

Hi,
152 must snap from side to side via the tension of 151. The main lever 204, must never "push" 152, but only be guided by 152 once 152 is in the right position.
In the cam guide I showed how to disassemble and rebuilt the cam. Because 151 is so "insanely" small, you might want to lasso the thing prior to disassembly. Take a fine sewing thread and work it around the spring with a simple knot --leaving something like four feet of thread to find it later--, and carry out the cam cleaning as outlined. It is a good idea to just give that "w" spring a bit more width by stretching it a tad. To replace the spring onto the cam, use a dab of lube in each socket (cam and 152). Remove the thread, place spring 151 into the cam greased pocket and line up to receive the pocket of 152. Hold 152 in place till the c clip (149) is placed. With the grease in these pockets, the chances of 151 taking unwanted flights into never-neverland is greatly reduced.
192 must be tight. There is enough flex for 188/204 to rotate because of the bow in 190. make sure to place a dab of grease between chassis and 188. There should be three or four dimples on the sole of 188, which will ride in that grease.
Pay special attention to the lubing of all the levers and parts that bolt 200 runs through. These are 200,199,186,255,254,248,247. They must have alvania and molycote in proper sequence to allow the Start/Stop switch to return to neutral position when the "Manual" position (with 252) is selected. This lube sequence can be seen in my pictorial of the 1009 and 1019 on my website.
Regards,
k
Klaus Adlhoch, fmr. Assistant Service Manager,
Noresco -N.Q.I.-Dual of Canada,
Area of expertise: Tech Training and Consumer Service P.R.
Associated with Dual till Thompson era.
Favorite Duals: TG 12a, 1009, 721.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 07 Jan 2017 18:01

Thanks guys. I think I figured it out. The culprit is the bent #152. The tip of the part was bent downward into the cam groove which limited the movement of the level. I used a pair of needle pliers flatten the tip of #152. It is now on top of the cam. This allows more room for it to move side by side. I assume that it was it was bent down forcefully at some point. Anyway it is working great now.

Thanks again for guiding me through the troubleshooting process.

https://goo.gl/photos/kKLDqpPz2ppkrsxs8
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 07 Jan 2017 22:22

Just to report back, that I have finally set it up with Shure 91ED cartridge. I have the similar one on the 1229Q too. I also had to add a ground wire to remove the hum noise. After all the 1009F sounds really well. I don't think it is much off from the 1229. Given the popularity of 1229 and 1019, I think 1009F (also has anti skid and pitch control) is quite a good alternative.

I now need a dust cover, any suggestion?
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby vinyl master » 07 Jan 2017 22:54

Sounds like your persistence paid off, wxm...The 1009's are great machines...I have a 1009SK, a 1009F, and a 1019, and I love them...My 1009F came with one of those hi-hat covers...It was cracked when I got it, and fixing it is still a project for another day...If you keep a lookout, you might be able to find a cover like this...



32588
32597
32598
32599

Let me know how you like the M91ED, too...It's my favorite cartridge! 8)
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 08 Jan 2017 01:03

Thanks VM. Given how far back of the counterweight, I assume the "high hat" cover might be the only solution. Though finding a spare one is going to be a long shot.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby DSJR » 08 Jan 2017 17:17

The e91ED *may* be too unstable in the 10** series arms to be honest and in the pi above, may I suggest turning the counterweight round so the engraved end is at the pivots?

The Shure 97XE is getting boring for me to keep going on about, but this and the Sumiko Pearl would make excellent cartridge choices I think.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby vinyl master » 08 Jan 2017 19:26

DSJR wrote:The e91ED *may* be too unstable in the 10** series arms to be honest and in the pi above, may I suggest turning the counterweight round so the engraved end is at the pivots?

The Shure 97XE is getting boring for me to keep going on about, but this and the Sumiko Pearl would make excellent cartridge choices I think.


I don't know...The 10xx series of turntables, esp. the 1019 and the Shure M91ED seem to be common match-ups...Remember, these tables can accommodate a wide variety of cartridges of various weights...One could also try a good Stanton or a Pickering V-15 on one of these, too...Mine came with a V-15 AME3 and I love it! I even got an original Pickering stylus from Gary, so I was fortunate...
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby DSJR » 08 Jan 2017 20:35

OK :) I was thinking of highly compliant cartridges in fairly massy tonearms playing ripply records - been there and done it at the time ;) Maybe (and I suspect) these arms look heavier than they really are, but I know Dual seemed to reduce the effective tonearm mass in the 12** series and increased use of plastics seemed to reduce this further before the ULM arms came along. Nothing to do with bearing friction or basic balance, where Dual were always at the top of the tree, just sheer effective mass with the then fashionable high compliance cartridges. Things have changed since then thankfully.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby wxm » 10 Jan 2017 05:07

I did notice the arm was heavy, especially when I installed the aftermarket headshell that I got from eBay. (I have to say that the aftermarket headshell seems to be very nicely made and feels top notch). I have to unscrew the counterweight all the way towards to the end. I think I have a Shure V-15 and ortofon 2m some where (both seem to be heavier than the 91ED). Anyway, maybe I will give a try one of those days.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby DSJR » 10 Jan 2017 12:42

I'm probably overdoing it in my comments above so please excuse me. One HUGE advantage in a massier tonearm is potential for increased rigidity, so the arm colours the sound less. A Dual 10** series has a nice wider diameter arm tube and bearing in mind my first experience of a 1019 was in the Linn Ittok arm days, I thought it felt right at home with its wider arm tube and solid looking headshell.

Later V15's (IV onwards) have the benefit of a damper brush built into the stylus guard. these are perfect for arms like this and will ensure total stability in use which should improve bass reproduction in this case I think. I've not found it necessary when I used a V15VMR in my 701 (a lovely combnation until the stylus was damaged accidentally - grrr!) and that leads into my continued recommendation for it's descendant, the Me97XE, which seems to share innards with the V15 'X' model and its relatives.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby Tinkaroo » 10 Jan 2017 12:52

I think a Shure M91ED or the equivalent M75ED Type 2 are good matches for the 1009.

As far as the cover goes, the high hat type covers are difficult to find in good shape at a fair price. You might be better off to find another base that uses a more conventional Dual dust cover as I did on my 1019 or else get one custom made for your 1009.
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Re: Dual 1009 repeatedly replay

Postby DSJR » 10 Jan 2017 14:37

wxm wrote:Thanks VM. Given how far back of the counterweight, I assume the "high hat" cover might be the only solution. Though finding a spare one is going to be a long shot.


I've not tried it and don't know how different the masses are, but may a 1219/1229 counterweight be used here? I'm assuming they're slightly heavier, but obviously, although similar in principle, the diameters of the counterweight 'stubs' may be too different to use. A local machine shop may be able to make a sleeve to fit over the bulk of the existing counterweight to bring it nearer to the pivot block...
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