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dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

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dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby paulmcdonald69 » 31 Dec 2016 15:39

Hi all could someone please help I have a dual cs505-3 Ac turntable that no longer starts up when I put the tonearm onto the record there's power but no movement I also have a 505 that works yet after a few minutes gives off a really noticeable burning smell my query is can I use the 505 to repair The 505 -3 Audio concept deck I haven't a clue how to fix them and there is no one in this part of Scotland who repairs HiFi turntables has anybody any advice please
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby REW » 31 Dec 2016 16:19

On the TT that does not start (and assuming no simple problem like a blown plug fuse etc) try squirting switch cleaner into the micro switch housing. This has a tiny plunger that is released when the pick up arm is swung towards the spindle but it often doesn't release properly after a while spent inactive. Work the plunger in and out.

As for the smell, mine did that too after a long time not in use but cleared away after a while. A bit nerve racking mind you! I think dust was burning off a resistor within the switch referred to above.
Ron

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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby Minstrel SE » 01 Jan 2017 00:45

Hi

It will be the microswitch, the board capacitors or the motor so its a process of elimination.
Parts are available from Dualfred in Germany so you have no worries. Its probably something on the control board and its usually the microswitch or the links to it

If you like to get hands on its a nice DIY project for you.

If you like getting the chassis out you will see how it all works under there and you can replace parts as necessary

The burning smell is actually nothing to worry about and it will go. The long grey power resistor naturally gets very hot and its just storage dust or age film burning off it. It gets so hot it will burn your finger but thats the way its designed. Take care when working on electrical items

It should ease away in a shortish amount of days.

Its a learning process and you wont find it hard I could do it but Ive been learning about these turntables for five years. I dont recommend you swap parts until you know exactly what you are doing

A repair shop is probably too pricey for the work that needs doing. Contact dualfred and start doing a bit of hobby research. They are both turntables worth spending a small amount on

Best wishes with it
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby DSJR » 01 Jan 2017 22:32

I remember a couple of cheap traded-in 505's being scrapped because of the burning smell. Not sure if it's truly normal though. There are caps and other components around this resistor and I wonder now if a cap had failed for example. Not having a 505 here I can't confirm it's totally safe, but that resistor did get bloody hot on these decks I remember...
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby Minstrel SE » 02 Jan 2017 01:49

Theres quite a few threads on it but the general consensus is running it for a while cures the smoke problem.

Yes the capacitors have to be checked and the motor but its usually the resistor burning off until it becomes dry again after storage. The coating absorbs moisture over years in storage and some of these have been in cold lofts and sheds.

They are hard to find 5K replacements for now so people keep the grey resistor running. Ive had four of those boards out and have the new capacitors ready for one. Again the general consensus is that resistor lasts and the turntables have been running ok

One guy said replacing the 68 capacitor cured his problem. There could be issues with old capacitors failing and drawing too much current All Im saying is the smoking died away on a few of my boards by running them normally again. Others have reported a similar situation and you wont smell it at all after a while

Ive watched this board powered up on a test bench. I must get round to replacing new capacitors on one board. I have plenty of spares so Im not worried in my hobby

If they were still badly smoking I would be concerned. I can understand why some may think its worrying. A lot of these decks ahave been in storage for years.

Changing the capacitors will be a job for the enthusiast but I didnt want to add more concerns as the OP gets a feel for what he has
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby DSJR » 03 Jan 2017 16:16

Thanks for the reassurance. Cheap Dual 505's in the UK are a thing of history now sadly, and I have enough decks already...
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby paulmcdonald69 » 04 Jan 2017 13:26

Thanks to everyone for there advice until I found this site I was gutted I could not play my vinyl anymore I'm not saying I can now but I will get them sorted once again many thanks
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby dualcan » 06 Jan 2017 03:01

Hi,
Juuuust a minute!
The smelling can be signs of a small disaster to come!
The resistor in the power pack should not get too hot because the power requirement for the SM 100 series of motors is very low.
First, the micro switch that sticks is the red (or sometimes black) one in the picture:
Defective condenserrs.JPG

In that picture, you also see three yellow capacitors with a value of 0.068uF, 0.33uF and 0.01 uF.
These three safety caps (X2 safety factor) tend to develop cracks in the plastic over the years. Once cracked, they soak up humidity and given time, will short out. This will go off like a firecracker, stink to high heavens and make a mess - which is the reason they are given the pet name Firecrackers...
Any unit with these Rifa caps (not only Dual...) should have these replaced ,if cracked, for that reason.
The heat developed in that resistor is a good sign that the C2 (and C3 if present) is starting to go.
Replace all of them for piece of mind!
Regards,
k
Klaus Adlhoch, fmr. Assistant Service Manager,
Noresco -N.Q.I.-Dual of Canada,
Area of expertise: Tech Training and Consumer Service P.R.
Associated with Dual till Thompson era.
Favorite Duals: TG 12a, 1009, 721.
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby 123 space or -+_[] » 06 Jan 2017 18:39

123 space or -+_[] wrote:If you have a dual 505 series deck that has not been "serviced" most likely the capacitors are on the way out, this is merely through the passing of time whether used or not. Classic symptom being the platter rotating anti clockwise or the motor being dead - a sticky micro switch is not always the culprit. A non rotating platter can also just be a drive belt!

The resistor can just steam as it dries out as well as smoke as it burns off dust but if it smells it is over heating! (see above post)

paulmcdonald69 wrote: cs505-3 turntable that no longer starts up .....there's power but no movement I also have a 505 that works yet after a few minutes gives off a really noticeable burning smell .......can I use the 505 to repair The 505 -3


Your 505 and 505-3 share the same power board, motor, belt and many other interchangeable parts - I would hazard a guess that the board with the micro switch and capacitors of the older 505 is past it due to its age (see above post) and the 505-3 is still serviceable but on the way out. You state there is power but no movement - please clarify. The capacitors give the kick start to the motor to turn the platter. The mico switch is the on /off for the power to the motor. Where is the "power" of which you speak? If the motor turns but the platter does not it may just be the belt.

Swapping broken bits from one machine to the other will get you nowhere, you need a known good power board as a "control" if you are going to be a fitter to diagnose the problem.


Do not be tempted to buy a new (its actually old!) board off ebay it may be working but won't for long the capacitors will be as old as yours. New capacitors are the way forward to keep both machines running.
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby Minstrel SE » 07 Jan 2017 07:37

Well Yes Dualcan has a point and I do have a set of capacitors ready to fit.

I have had a capacitor go whoosh in a 28 year old Sharp amplifier and it does stink.

I dont know if the Rifas go up any worse and lets face it that they are due for replacement now. Ive been taking my chances because I have inspected the boards and it is a hobby I havent got fully round to yet which is a bit lazy of me. Because I have been gathering the parts I have been running the existing ones to possible extinction. I would have thought they were pretty dry and the casing is cracked on some... I dont fancy the smell and the discharge on the board though so I must get on with it

Having seen one or two run backwards at some point I have been glad things resolved for now and I am possibly running one to see if I can get the rumble and everything to specification even with the older caps in place.

I have been running them as I have three boards and one without a microswitch(somebody bridged the solder points it with wire and a switch) as a tester spare.

All I can say is my 5K resistors seems to run ok now with the old capacitors but peace of mind is a full refurbishment

You are right though Dualcan that it is proper advice to recommend a full service as soon as possible. I will just get my new point tip and desolder braid/sucker then those caps are coming out. I will restore two boards.

I didnt want to worry the op and I dont know if the op wants to get hands on. The advice should be the 5K resistor does stop smoking in many cases but its best to get the whole board checked out as soon as possible
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby paulmcdonald69 » 09 Jan 2017 10:07

Wow guys a lot of a very good information there first of all when I said there's power but no movement I meant that I get feedback through the stylus to the amp yet cant get no movement on the 505-3 and the other stinks of burning rubber or electronics when on for a minute or so .can I apologise about not replying straight awayvi don't have very good WiFi access where I live I shall take some time out to fix at least one of them I know I could get a good used or even new one but I really like the sound .
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby paulmcdonald69 » 09 Jan 2017 10:27

Further to my earlier reply could I get the 505-3 serviced ? Does anyone know anyone in Scotland who could do this as I've looked and I can only find folk fixing DJ decks and when I enquired they told me they don't deal with decks that old which seemed odd and even if there's such a thing turntable snobbery .
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby 123 space or -+_[] » 09 Jan 2017 12:19

If you can manage to get the board out here is some guidance for any one with some soldering iron ability to follow. viewtopic.php?t=27246
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby 123 space or -+_[] » 09 Jan 2017 12:31

paulmcdonald69 wrote:there's power but no movement I meant that I get feedback through the stylus to the amp yet cant get no movement


The stylus being "live" has nothing to do with the power to the platter, even with the deck un-pluged the stylus would give "feedback" when connected to the amp.

As The 505-3 is not so far past "its best before" date it may come to life with some manual persuasion ie the bearings in the motor/spindle have hard grease stiff oil. Have you checked the belt is present,complete,attached?

Try see if the micro switch is stuck gummy - do mind the 240v live wires if you do this plugged when plugged in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wUD1FphEgk
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Re: dual cs 505-3 And 505 help needed

Postby Minstrel SE » 11 Jan 2017 10:17

It raises an interesting question about how hands on people want to get.

I love to get hands on and see how things work. I love restoring things and have enough knowledge tools and asoldering iron to do a very good job. I bought my 505s very cheap to restore them as well as I can.

It can be difficult advising people because others dont want to get so hands on and they may have these turntables hoping they will work well enough without too much fuss. Im most cases the 505 will work but obviously they are at a time now when a servicing is required for lasting and peak performance.

I can see the cost of a repair engineer being prohibitive and my view is they will do certain jobs but wont give the overall love and attention that a DIY enthusuast will. As with everything its a case of learning about it from square one

Then again I have to say that there is always be some cost involved in parts and time. I have given one motor bearing a hot oil soak and plan to bring it all to good as new performance even if I have to buy a new main platter bearing. I cant put a price on the enjoyment Ive had though and I wanted to see where I was going with vinyl after a long time away

I cant say its for everyone and there are certain owners that I would probably advise just to buy a brand new turntable and get on with playing records.

That said I find the 505 enjoyable to work on and satisfying to service. That has to be weighed up when considering how far to go.

Best wishes with it
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