Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

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Tinkaroo
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Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 30 Dec 2016 11:15

This is the Dual 701 Direct Drive Turntable from about !972. It uses the superb EDS-1000 motor from EBM-Pabst and came factory equipped with a Shure V15 Type III cartridge. The build quality on this model is excellent and it was more of a statement piece than a money maker since the profit margins must have been slim.

The turntable I've owned the longest is my Dual 604 which is a semi-auto direct drive. I've owned it new since 1978. I also have Dual 621, 701 and 721 direct drive turntables.

This topic is for anybody who owns a Dual direct drive turntable to talk about their Dual direct drive, perhaps show a photo or two, perhaps share how long they've owned it and what they like about it.
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kenny123
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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by kenny123 » 01 Jan 2017 03:17

Not quite skilled enough to load pictures yet but I have a CS630Q,while not a desired Dual "its plastic" it sounds and plays great with an om20 on it.I use my 1218 as a daily driver as I hade it restored and I like the looks better but the 630 is a nice table.Lusting over your 701,hope to get one someday,or a 721 when the right deal comes along.

Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 01 Jan 2017 10:39

This thread is open to all Dual direct drive turntables including the later ULM models. =D>

The first dual direct drive I bought was my 604 which I bought new in 1978. Before that I had owned a PE and a Dual belt drive turntable. I liked the tonearm on the 604.

The 604 was a semi automatic model meaning you had to move the tonearm over the platter to start it and then lower the cue control. It would pick up at the end of the record and return to the tonearm rest.

I've had it since then and it has always been super reliable and only been serviced once that being by Klaus Z. at the now defunct All-In-One Electronics. This is not Klaus A. from our boards, but another one who used to do service work for Noresco when they were the Dual distributor for Canada.

I managed to pick up a Dual 621 which was the fully automatic version of the 604 for a very cheap price a few years back. I also had that one serviced by Klaus Z.. It would also date from 1978. It has the same tonearm as the 604, and they both feature a slightly simplified anti-resonator as compared to the 721. I've since updated both the 604 and 621 with the 2X anti-resonator as used on the 721.

The servicing work was money well spent in both cases since they both work beautifully. 8)

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by REW » 01 Jan 2017 11:04

I could join in and extol the pleasure I have had from my CS626, until recently! This is the fully automatic EDS500 drive model which I have had for quite a while and used in preference to a Technics 1200, several belt drive Duals and a Linn Axis.

My CS626 is low use and faultless mechanically though is now suffering from what I suspect is capacitor failure, which I hope to fix in time. If I see another good 701 etc I will snap it up!

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by DSJR » 01 Jan 2017 21:26

My beloved 701 isn't mint as the one above appears to be and it's showing its age here and there, but I love it to bits.

It was in 1988 or so and a pal and I were visiting a used hifi shop in Darlington (UK). The Dual had a 681EEE fitted, selling for £75 and I asked if I could just have the deck alone. I was allowed to have just the deck for £50 and that's how I came to have it.

Sound quality is very good and in my opinion, above that of a current Rega 3. Dual worked very hard to make the old auto-changer based chassis as inert as possible and the mechanism itself is whisper-quiet in operation, lacking the slight clicks and clonks of the other Dual models (the 601 isn't bad, but isn't anything like as quiet in cycling). A 'better' deck will sound more expansive in all perceived planes, but the dear old 701 keeps perspectives true, just in a smaller package in my opinion. I've used so many different cartridges in mine and have been constantly surprised how well the tonearm copes. I have a Notts Analogue Spacemat sat on top of the stock stuck-on mat and it's better to me to have it there.

I know the 721 is regarded as the better deck, but the increased use of plastic parts (headshell?) and the less rigid variable tonearm height adjustment did seem to dilute the perception of rigidity somewhat in my opinion. Not having both decks side by side may mean I'm unfairly biased, so apologies there.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 02 Jan 2017 11:48

Once you get past the less expensive plinth on the 721 I think Dual did a pretty good job on it while adding some very good features all while holding the line on the price.That was a major accomplishment considering the competition and inflationary environment at the time.

They managed to keep the top quality motor with the EDS 1000-2.

-They changed the strobe design from the underneath paper type to a milled platter design which is easier to see and could be utilized on other models.

-They kept the 2X anti resonator even if it was restyled a bit.

-They added a single play and repeat switch.

-The tonearm adjustments for VTA and descent rate are a great feature and easy to use. The tonearm assembly is very rigid and at the same time well balanced.

-They made the whole package look a bit more modern with the restyling of the base, platter, tonearm gimbal and counterweight while still not being over-complicated to use.

I think the designers deserve a lot of credit for what they accomplished. =D>

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Kurt45 » 02 Jan 2017 14:22

My first turntable was a Dual 604 as well. I bought it through mail order probably around 1979-80. There was a high end shop in the town where I lived, and I bought an AKG P7E cartridge for it (I really wanted the P8E but I was funding my hobby with a newspaper route, so every penny counted). I asked the salesman about upgrading from the Dual, and he advised me not to. He said the arm on the Duals was as good as arms on much more expensive tables.

Later, I bought a Shure M97HE for it (the ad copy about how the stabilizer brush dealt with warps, removed dust, and killed static totally sold me). I had that combo for many years, eventually pairing it with a Citation amp and preamp. Later, I sold the Dual and bought a used Thorens TD-125 and a Shure V15-V. Then, in the 1990s, I downsized my life, sold all my equipment, and got a simpler set-up (used) with an NAD integrated amp and a Dual 505. What the salesman said about the tonearm stuck with me.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by gofar99 » 02 Jan 2017 15:09

Hi, My first (and only ) Dual is a 701. I got it a long while back and it served me well for many years. Unfortunately the arm got damaged when I moved. Instead of junking it or seeing if I could get a new arm I made a new plinth and added an arm. The photo shows it with a Jelco 370H, but it now has an Origin Live one there. It is a daily driver and with a Hana EL feeding my system is really excellent.
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Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 02 Jan 2017 15:41

Kurt45 wrote:My first turntable was a Dual 604 as well. I bought it through mail order probably around 1979-80. There was a high end shop in the town where I lived, and I bought an AKG P7E cartridge for it (I really wanted the P8E but I was funding my hobby with a newspaper route, so every penny counted). I asked the salesman about upgrading from the Dual, and he advised me not to. He said the arm on the Duals was as good as arms on much more expensive tables.

Later, I bought a Shure M97HE for it (the ad copy about how the stabilizer brush dealt with warps, removed dust, and killed static totally sold me). I had that combo for many years, eventually pairing it with a Citation amp and preamp. Later, I sold the Dual and bought a used Thorens TD-125 and a Shure V15-V. Then, in the 1990s, I downsized my life, sold all my equipment, and got a simpler set-up (used) with an NAD integrated amp and a Dual 505. What the salesman said about the tonearm stuck with me.
I'm glad to hear that your 604 served you well over the years, just as mine has. I've had mine for almost 40 years now and it has never let me down.

I forget what the original cartridge was but eventually I upgraded to a Shure V15 Type IV and ran that for many years.

I agree with your salesman about the Dual arms being very good. They aren't as fancy looking as some of the curved arms with the dangling weights, but they work very well and are easy to adjust.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by DSJR » 02 Jan 2017 19:53

I had a TD125mk1 a very few years ago and the 701 was put into storage for a while. The usual money woes came along and I sold a highly respected Technics SL-1500 and the TD125, keeping the Rega R200 arm and the 701. I had the chance of buying the 125 back very recently, umm'd and ahh'd about it and it went to someone else. I was a bit sad, as the 125 is utterly silent on quiet grooves and doesn't have the tendency to accelerate away as my 701 still tries to do every so often (I think it's finally pinned down to dry solder joints around the speed selector and trim pots on the deck plate.

Tinkaroo and everyone, do forgive my forays into audio lala land. I worked for some so-called top-end dealers in my career and decks like any Dual were regarded as quaint basic-system-aspiration turntables based on an old fashioned auto-changer chassis.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Legrace » 14 Mar 2017 20:35

Recently posted a topic about my resuscitated 721. As I'm now interested in learning more about the brand started rummaging through this forum and happened upon this thread. I've already shared the story about its rescue from my broken down gear pile. So more on impressions instead...

Sitting directly opposite is a relatively newish Rega RP6. Which in turn has been the recipient of many, cough expensive :mrgreen: , upgrades. Arm replaced with a Jeff Spall AudioMods micrometer arm, nice LOMC cartridge, Groovetracer subplatter, yada yada. Pushing it to at least the same level as the Rega RP8 if not higher. Certainly higher in terms of cost, and a new RP8 ain't exactly cheap :roll: Serving as my baseline for comparison.

Things I'm beginning to appreciate about the Dual....

First thing is the concept of replaceable headshell. A cool feature if you don't have it. #-o I would like to pick up some more of those sled thingys as I own a few decent cartridges. Where do folks go for these things anyways? On a related note its nice to be back into a replaceable stylus! Wear rate of stylus on expensive LOMC's has recently taken on new meaning. (recent change in financial situation, sadly not for the better :cry: )

Secondly, with higher end gear you get spoiled, err more critical in your listening. (First one is what my wife calls it) I never really expected the Dual/Shure combination to measure up that well to Mr Uber next door. I've come to expect quiet backgrounds - check, good extension top and especially bottom - check, no IGD or sibilance - check, good pace and musical- yup. Err say what?? The differences between it and the Rega are mainly around the edges. I have a discerning ear and can recognize the more expensive rig but I doubt the rest of the fam would be able to pick one out from the other - it's that good.

I see a lot of posts asking for table selection advice keeping in mind a beer budget. They would be well served by a Dual in this reviewers opinion! =D>
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Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 15 Mar 2017 08:07

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and a photo of your beautiful 721!=D>

The styling is very futuristic looking compared to the earlier 701 and stood out in 1978 as it does almost 40 years later.

If you are looking for spare headshells you can get new TK 14/24 headshells from the likes of Thakker, Dualfred or LP Gear. You can usually get used ones on ebay but the price and condition are something to watch out for.

It is always nice to have spare headshells equipped with alternate cartridges just for a different sound or change of pace.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Legrace » 15 Mar 2017 12:30

Thanks! Found it over at LP Gear.

Checking out on line photos I see two versions of this model. Most obvious differences are in the platter and rubber mat. Looks like mine is a 2nd gen. And yes agree styling wise these hold up very well.

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Legrace » 21 Aug 2017 02:16

The 1219/1229/1229Q appreciation thread extends to 7 pages. Why only 1 page for DD models? I'm guessing that Dual sold a lot less of these models?

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Re: Dual Direct Drive Appreciation Thread

Post by Tinkaroo » 21 Aug 2017 10:01

Legrace wrote:The 1219/1229/1229Q appreciation thread extends to 7 pages. Why only 1 page for DD models? I'm guessing that Dual sold a lot less of these models?
Perhaps if it was called the 701/704/721 Appreciation Thread it would have drawn more interest?

After Dual stopped producing idler drives then you had to buy a direct drive or belt drive. The 701 is probably more rare than the others but I'm thinking they sold more of the other models such as the 721 and 704 or the 604, 621 and then some direct drive ULM versions.

Perhaps this thread just keeps getting lost in the shuffle. I personally think they are great turntables and have the 701,721,604 and 621 in my collection.

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