CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

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jdubbie
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CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by jdubbie » 23 Aug 2015 15:39

I'm working on a 616Q that seems to have two probably unconnected problems. I have disassembled and reassembled the player several times, so I can get at all the boards and mechanicals.

1) At 33 rpm setting, the player disconnects from power intermittently. Occasionally, it will quit running just as though you'd pulled the plug, and the LED will go out, and then the LED for the 33 setting will blink and come back on and bring the go-round back up to speed. I have not ascertained whether it fails at the 45 rpm setting. I haven't gotten it to fail in brief tests. One thing I've noticed is that when switched to 45, it is difficult to get it switched back to 33, which leads me to suspect that problem is at the switch. There is not much that is mechanical about the switch. The button pushes a contact on a board. I'm not familiar with this kind of switch. I would ordinarily look for something to clean in this situation, but this kind of switch is scarcely mechanical in nature and I fear indicates the board needs to be replaced.

2) The other feature which is faulty is the lift system. One of the drawings in the SM labels this "M3 Lift" and it appears to be parts 75-77 in the parts list. Assuming that the fault might be in the switch, it is completely in a failed state. However, I need to find out a safe way to test the M3 Lift. When I examine the mechanical bits at the end of the lever that the M3 Lift actuates, I also see possible problems. Specifically, I am not able physically to raise the tonearm by pushing the lever under the lift rod (60). The lift rod, which is spring loaded, moves upwards with the lever, but it makes no noticeable change above where it should engage and lift the tonearm. I notice in the SM, which is sparse enough, that there is nevertheless a section on "Changing the Lift Bolt" in the cue control. So I wonder if there is a sacrificial item here. This table is really pretty much useless without lift control, otherwise the arm scrapes the stylus across the record in the return sequence.

So, in sum, I'm hoping the power cutting out can be repaired by a simple switch cleaning of some sort. The lift system seems quite a bit more complicated to sort out, and I'd appreciate any suggestions on either or both problems.

Thanks,
jdubbie

mrow2
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by mrow2 » 23 Aug 2015 23:28

My own experience with those tiny button switches has not been good. They don't seem to clean well (i.e. not very serviceable) but you can always try. I presume they could be replaced if similar ones could be found.

jdubbie
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by jdubbie » 27 Aug 2015 18:01

mrow2 wrote:My own experience with those tiny button switches has not been good. They don't seem to clean well (i.e. not very serviceable) but you can always try. I presume they could be replaced if similar ones could be found.
Good news! I cleaned everything I could find to clean. I was careful to test the operation after cleaning various things and got ultimate success by cleaning the nodes on the boards that are bridged by the black pad that the button pushes into them. I also cleaned the black pads too. Cleaning also restored operation of the Lift mechanism and button operation. Because of the relative simplicity of operation of this table, it is dependent upon the automatic lift at the end of play and use of the lift button to lower the tonearm to the record at start of play, so I wasn't too sure how I was going to be able to use this table without the lift feature, so I am very happy at the relatively simple fix, though I did spend a lot of time on it.

I cleaned primarily with spray contact cleaner, but I did spray a tiny bit of Deoxit on the nodes on the boards and wiped them very thoroughly. This table appears to have been owned by a chain smoker, hence the special cleaning issues: the inside was worse than the outside. Anyway, I'm developing some fondness for this table now that it is behaving.

Cheers,
jdubbie

gdog
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by gdog » 04 Apr 2016 19:08

jdubbie wrote:Good news! I cleaned everything I could find to clean. I was careful to test the operation after cleaning various things and got ultimate success by cleaning the nodes on the boards that are bridged by the black pad that the button pushes into them. I also cleaned the black pads too. Cleaning also restored operation of the Lift mechanism and button operation. Because of the relative simplicity of operation of this table, it is dependent upon the automatic lift at the end of play and use of the lift button to lower the tonearm to the record at start of play, so I wasn't too sure how I was going to be able to use this table without the lift feature, so I am very happy at the relatively simple fix, though I did spend a lot of time on it.

I cleaned primarily with spray contact cleaner, but I did spray a tiny bit of Deoxit on the nodes on the boards and wiped them very thoroughly. This table appears to have been owned by a chain smoker, hence the special cleaning issues: the inside was worse than the outside. Anyway, I'm developing some fondness for this table now that it is behaving.
Excellent - I'm hoping this will help with my own problem. The lift mechanism engages (apparently randomly) during play. I saw another thread on the topic - "Dual CS 616-Q tonearm raises randomly" - but it is locked and didn't have a definitive solution. So... I'll do my best to follow this approach to cleaning the nodes and pads.

thanks for sharing your experience, greg

jdubbie
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by jdubbie » 04 Apr 2016 20:13

gdog wrote:
Excellent - I'm hoping this will help with my own problem. The lift mechanism engages (apparently randomly) during play. I saw another thread on the topic - "Dual CS 616-Q tonearm raises randomly" - but it is locked and didn't have a definitive solution. So... I'll do my best to follow this approach to cleaning the nodes and pads.

thanks for sharing your experience, greg
You're welcome, Greg. I sprayed contact cleaner on the lift servo to make sure it was clean, but I suspect that it was the spiral button on the board that made a faulty connection because it was cleaning those for the 33 and 45 speeds that made the table run without interruption. I presume you know that the facia has to be removed from the front of the table to dismantle the housing for the buttons and to access the small board that has the contacts for the 33, 45, and lift buttons?

I had thought in my case that the lift feature was broken and had not expected it to begin working again, so that was a very pleasant surprise. I should add that I cleaned every contact on the table -- ribbon connectors, everything. If you've got some Deoxit, please use it directly on the board where the button contacts sit. It probably doesn't hurt to clean the rubbery button that makes contact with the board too. Having done more than one thing, it's impossible to know exactly which thing did the trick for me.

Best,
jdubbie

Japi Roelofs
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by Japi Roelofs » 06 Feb 2017 20:50

I just finished work on one of these models. It had the common problem of the tonearm lifting up randomly during playback. So none of the problems above, but since this thread deals with the internals of the machine I thought I'd chime in anyway.

Following the cleaning regime as outlined by jdubbie, and cleaning and relubing the main bearing, I initially thought it worked as the tonearm would stay down. But after more testing the same problem came back.

I also read a comment by Manfred / lini (on a different forum) that the C05 and C10 capacitors might be the culprit. But they looked alright to me.

Then I noticed some pretty bad tarnish on the little microswitch that engages the lift solenoid. It looked really black, so I cleaned the contact points using a sliver of pencil eraser, followed by some contact cleaner. Part # 69 "Microschalter" (microswitch) in the exploded view drawing, part # S1 in the wiring scheme.

Cleaning this switch ultimately cured the problem. So far I have played six album sides without the tonearm moving up once.

I wanted to post a picture of the switch, but for some reason the Photobucket site is down at the moment, I'll try again later.

jdubbie
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by jdubbie » 06 Feb 2017 22:47

Japi Roelofs wrote:I just finished work on one of these models. It had the common problem of the tonearm lifting up randomly during playback. <snip>

Then I noticed some pretty bad tarnish on the little microswitch that engages the lift solenoid. It looked really black, so I cleaned the contact points using a sliver of pencil eraser, followed by some contact cleaner. Part # 69 "Microschalter" (microswitch) in the exploded view drawing, part # S1 in the wiring scheme.

Cleaning this switch ultimately cured the problem. So far I have played six album sides without the tonearm moving up once.
Glad you were successful! Such a good feeling...

I was apparently successful with the lift by dumb luck. I sprayed contact cleaner on it for sure, though I may also have buffed it a little with a Q-Tip. It was not working at all and I had thought it was dead. Pleasant surprise when it all came back to life.

In the case of my 616Q, it came from a smoker's home and had a layer of tobacco tar over the entire table. The tar was bad, but it might have preserved it from tarnish! and it was pretty easy to clean up. This is a light, rather cheap-feeling table, but I like the headshell style on this table (similar to 505-2) because I enjoy comparing cartridges/styli.

Best,
jdubbie

Japi Roelofs
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by Japi Roelofs » 07 Feb 2017 11:45

Yes it can be very rewarding if you're able to fix a 'lost cause'. The 'random' problems are the ones that can drive you crazy.

Here's the picture of the switch:

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq15 ... sldwfp.jpg

jdubbie
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by jdubbie » 07 Feb 2017 13:31

Japi Roelofs wrote: Here's the picture of the switch:

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq15 ... sldwfp.jpg
Is it possible that that switch is arcing? Is one of the capacitors supposed to protect it and is maybe failing? The more I work on the later model Duals, the less I trust the integrity of the original capacitors. I should open mine and take a closer look at that switch. There is enough to do when everything is working. One hates to replace capacitors that are still functioning but ...

I got my 616Q out last night, as it turns out, because it has a cart mounted that I wanted to listen to. The table is more weighty and substantial than I remember as compared with the 515. I should sell it but have very little money in it and it's a bit fun.

jdubbie

Wamadeus
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by Wamadeus » 08 Dec 2018 05:41

Good evening.
Only one question: is it difficult to remove the front of the TT? I've the same problem.

Thank you.

Spinner45
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by Spinner45 » 08 Dec 2018 07:53

Wamadeus wrote:
08 Dec 2018 05:41
Good evening.
Only one question: is it difficult to remove the front of the TT? I've the same problem.

Thank you.
There are several snap "latches" holding things together, and the cabinet must be taken apart in a specific sequence, and re-assembled in the reverse order.

This is one, serviced, that I have for sale on CL.
Dual616.jpg
(91.62 KiB) Downloaded 37 times

thierry74
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Re: CS 616Q Lift and Motor interruptions

Post by thierry74 » 10 Jun 2019 15:06

I also had the problem of the tonearm raising randomly, and I can confirm that cleaning the microswitch at #S1 solved the problem for me!

I just cleaned the contacts with a piece of cloth dipped in alcohol, and my turntable works wonderfully since then.

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