Dual 1229 Repair

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mrow2
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 14 Jul 2014 01:54

You'll need to describe the exact symptom again, I just cannot visualize what exactly is happening. I will say this arm is one of the trouble areas in grease-clogged units. I don't know if that is happening here, but it needs to be able to move (articulate) freely, and not have dirty grease in the central pivot where 187 is. The only thing I ever do with 273, 274, 276 is to wax the plinth where they touch it, so that all movement with these various parts is resistance free. Hard to believe this issue would make it a parts unit. The 1219 companion should really help to resolve this. I don't know if you adjusted the segment guide or not, it cannot touch the segment at all. I don't really know why it is there. I presume the single-multi lift is functional and not cracked?

lreneat
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by lreneat » 14 Jul 2014 10:26

I had the whole tonearm unit out of the metal base plate because I thought that the contact cable was damaged, but the 4 wires were good, so I reinstalled the tonearm and re-soldered the end phono wires back to where RCA's exit. I did a sample spot play with a record, stereo sound was as it should be through head-set.
The tonearm is free to move sideways when Pawl is not touching or hitting the segment. It clashes inside at start-up and the segment clashes outside upon return as well. These parts should remain free of each other when the Segment #201 travels through the opening area of the Pawl #273/274. Is there an actual adjustment option on the Segment #201? If so, is adjustment possible from the under side of the segment which is out of view when installed in the turntable? The tonearm lifts at the end of play, but does not get all the way back to the tonearm rest. I have attempted many adjustments to the main lever screw, but get no benefit of doing so for the tonearm's proper movement.

lreneat
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by lreneat » 14 Jul 2014 10:36

All old grease has been removed from parts with alcohol when parts were removed. Parts were oiled as needed and reassembled. The Prong Spring was also properly reinstalled so that start/stop spring action was made normal at the switch arm assembly.

dualcan
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dualcan » 14 Jul 2014 16:08

lreneat wrote:
1 Can you tell me if there is any adjustment option on part #201 Segment complete? If an adjustment exists,
It must be on the other hidden side of the Segment complete. I have adjusted the sliding bar screw #189 and the part referred to as (N). These seem to be in good balance so that the auto switching works as it should.

2 What options do I have if part #'s 201 and 273/274 can't be adjusted to get tonearm to be freed from it's binding automatic state? Replace part(s)? All auto function bars and connecting parts appear to be in undamaged good condition. At some point here the available adjustment options come to an end. Parts turntable?

1 Segment 201 is located/held (plus sliding vertically) on the tonearm intermediate part 54 of gimbal (see page 7 fig 12). This means 201 is fixed for all horizontal movements but slides for the two Vertical Tracking Angle adjustments, single and multi.
All horizontal adjustment are carried out on an items per item basis that connect to it; Example: Shut off slide 253 is adjusted by the excentric bolt to which c clip 272 is attached to; tonearm lift height is adjusted by guide 200; anti skate via crescent clip 264 and pawl 273 (which is activated by tonearm movement hence segment 201) is adjusted by adjusting the two halves of 188 which is locked by screw 189 and the proper location of the square 274 as outlined in Fig 26 page 14. There is no further adjustment on the segment for the pawl 273.

2. Make sure that the segment has not been misshaped / bent anywhere (plier-marks). All original angles on 201 are 90 degrees and any deviation is suspect. I have never had a turntable that could not be adjusted with these adjustments, the only thing which can make it difficult are parts bent, damaged, or wrongly installed.

I would suggest to make some close up pics of the area for evaluation to help with further diagnosis.
Regards,
k

lreneat
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by lreneat » 17 Jul 2014 02:55

My wife made a printed copy of your comments. I spent about 3-4 hours today messing around with the Dual 1229 again but for no real gain. What a surprise. The only thing I did notice was that the top side Steuerpimpel was missing. Is this missing item a part of the auto function problem along with the Pawl and Segment bumping into each other? I don't see any real connection with the upper Steuerpimpel and the Pawl/Segment issue, but I could be dead wrong?
Something is screwy with the cuing action. If it is adjusted to lift tonearm, the tonearm itself becomes horizontally hindered. If the cuing is backed off, it will not raise the tonearm, but tonearm is then unhindered horizontally. Do any of these combined symptoms give you any clues as to what is wrong?
I'm wondering if something is getting jammed up with the tonearm's innards when auto function is in process?
If I can't find a way to fix the auto functions, should I consider making it into a manual turntable? I tried this once before, but was not happy with the outcome because all of the auto function stuff in the turntable seemed to interfere with a positive manual turntable outcome.

dualcan
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dualcan » 17 Jul 2014 03:42

Hi,
The upper pimple really has nothing to do with the segment or any of the lower levers. It is simply there to hold the arm from sliding horizontally (because of the antiskate force) when cue lift is activated and also to keep the movement quiet as compared to a metal scrape without this pimple.
This pawl issue has to be looked into only with the main switch lever, segment and its adjustments. Once this is sorted out then the tone arm adjustment for height both auto-cycle and cue lift can be taken care of.
From my previous post this is the central issue for the pawl:

"pawl 273 (which is activated by tonearm movement hence segment 201) is adjusted by adjusting the two halves of 188 which is locked by screw 189 and the proper location of the square 274 as outlined in Fig 26 page 14. There is no further adjustment on the segment for the pawl 273."

A thorough read (perhaps a few times) of the service manual in the area of tonearm movements should help to understand the mechanism and to minimize frustration.
I would suggest to post a picture in order to get a clearer idea of what is problematic in your 1229. To turn these units into manuals would be a shame in my view. The stacking function can safely be forgotten I grant you, but the single automatic is not a bad idea.
Regards,
k

dmadmc
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dmadmc » 06 Jun 2019 21:34

I have similar problems with my newly acquired Dual 1229Q table. I disassembled the tonearm parts yesterday and and I found that both ear-parts were broken off. As you specified it looks very fragile and flimsy even though I can glue them together. Can you explain a little more on pinning methods? Also what do you suggest gluing them? Is epoxy glue the best for them or any other glues you recommend?

mrow2
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 06 Jun 2019 23:40

This is a very old thread, and there are newer ones which cover this with a lot of more current information but basically, with this situation, not much has changed except that the part is available and I don't believe it was completed yet in 2014. With both ear-parts broken off, I do not feel there will be enough contact area for them to be glued on. Also, not enough "meat" there for pinning these two tiny things. Only solution is to follow the tutorial and install the replacement metal part, and once finished, be proud that you've achieved it! Primary reason they cannot be glued is that there is continuous stress on the ears once they are in place, from the spring inside the assembly, constantly forcing them to break away. Glue cannot work.

The plastic ears have become brittle and dried out over the ages, and were not strong to begin with. My earlier 2014 post describing a repair with pins involved reassembling some broken pieces from the cylinder wall (below the pins) and it worked but in that case the "ears" were not chipped off the remaining pieces and so the final assembly seemed very strong. After finishing and smoothing it, sanding, trial fitting, etc, I painted the assembly to match original. It was epoxy/melt/pinned together every which way, but you couldn't see it. But the ears were never the problem. This was done well before the new part ever became available, and I still would have been repairing the outer part anyway.

dmadmc
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dmadmc » 07 Jun 2019 14:11

"Only solution is to follow the tutorial and install the replacement metal part, and once finished, be proud that you've achieved it!"

First of all, thank you so much for your quick reply to my note. Greatly appreciated!
As you mentioned above, where can I buy the replacement metal part and tutorial material?
Again many thanks for your kind reply.

dmadmc
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dmadmc » 07 Jun 2019 17:29

I found these york assembly parts (dual 233732) available at the dual-parts store, so I ordered them for replacement.
This will save a lot of my time and concerns. I am now looking forward to getting them next week hopefully.

mrow2
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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 07 Jun 2019 17:56

I am not sure what you are referring to, needle in haystack to find that (we usually reference the 2 or 3 digit pointer numbers from the explosion view to ID something) but the part I was referring to is in a sticky here and was created by Dualcan & Son and is also probably mentioned at his site which is linked here.