Dual 1229 Repair

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Dualmaniac
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Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 30 Apr 2014 11:50

I have a beautiful 1015F, 1209, 1246, and 704. I want to be a small part in keeping these wonderful machines around. Not for profit, just a retirement hobby. My nostalgic (wore out?)1229, can I repair the tonearm lift assembly? I can see that it needs the O-ring, but I suspect further damage to the lifting assembly. It also has a noticeable speed variation. I would suspect the idler first, but it is pliable and appears to be true. This TT was serviced locally at a Hi-Fi shop about ten years ago and used very little afterward. The motor was disassembled at that time and bearings lubed to ward off future failure. Do I have more probems than it is conceivable to overcome?

Thannks

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Tinkaroo » 30 Apr 2014 12:31

Your last line would be a good lead line for a comedian!

Seriously though I think the 1229 would definitely be worth the effort of saving it, and I'm sure that the experts here can help you figure out solutions to making it sing again.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 30 Apr 2014 16:00

Seriously though I think the 1229 would definitely be worth the effort of saving it, and I'm sure that the experts here can help you figure out solutions to making it sing again.
Tinkeroo, it is my opinion that you are one of those experts. I am serious, but I am afraid the TT will be seriously dead if I remove the tonearm. I want to learn, and it would be awsome to fix it myself. But I would rather not trash it trying.
Is this something I should try, or leave it for someone more capable?

Thanks.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by calgarysaurus » 30 Apr 2014 16:45

A 1229 should never be scrapped. Which part is the O-ring? You are right though - messing with the tonearm is a real challenge. I also suspect your speed problem is a worn idler. I bought a brand new Dual one just a few years ago and it fixed up my speed issues. The motor is relatively easy to service compared with many other issues. The 1229 is amongst the top 3 models from Dual.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 30 Apr 2014 17:51

All the regular experts, Dualcan, Tinkaroo et al will be able to help. That lifter piston, I'm not aware of an O ring in it. It simply needs a proper workflow for disassembly and some additional silicone (viscosity about 300,000). You might be able to service it without full disassembly. The issue is that the tiny c clip must come off without flying away so it must be carefully captured as it's removed. The ribbed cap does not just unscrew and lift off because of tonearm gimbal positioning, not enough clearance and you cannot force it. The settings should be noted if possible, there are limited ranges of settings which allow good performance.

The machine is worth saving and it's generally all routine service. The motor servicing is a download at the top of this forum but it may be ok for now if it was nicely done before. You have my PDF guide I think, it covers almost everything to do with this sort of thing. My latest experience has to do with idler dressing, platter drum dressing and gentle pulley dressing All fingerprints and oils must be removed from these surfaces. The 1229 idler if not cracked can probably be ok for now. I'm interested in what others have to say regarding this area of servicing. As Dualcan has previously emphasized, when dressing the inside of the platter drum surface, take special care of the paper strobe pattern as it
would be difficult to replace so you want to avoid even touching it if possible. I have had to re-glue a few sections here and there, that is all I do for them. I have a photo of one but it is not quite perfectly centered. Nonetheless it would work. The Dual service manual along with the other guides should help with everything.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 30 Apr 2014 20:37

mrow2 wrote:That lifter piston, I'm not aware of an O ring in it. It simply needs a proper workflow for disassembly and some additional silicone (viscosity about 300,000).
I should have been clearer. It is the single / multi lifter assembly that I think may have some serious issues. It will not pull the tonearm down. I have had some luck in the multi position, but if I push the arm down into the single position then the arm does not exactly bind, but it has too much lateral friction to track properly. I am trying to work up the courage to disassemble it for further investigation. So far nobody has told me not to. Is that some encouragment by omission?

Thanks

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 01 May 2014 00:19

I've discussed that a bit in my PDF but I did not over-elaborate. This is tricky stuff. You have one sleeve inside another, on small plastic "ears" which revolve the jack to one of two positions. If any of that is cracked as is the case when this device is forced, then it's a friction-of-broken parts-problem. I have repaired one that was in pieces, with pins, heat, epoxy and patience. It is a tricky, difficult repair.

The prescribed fix is to replace the tonearm with one which has these parts in unbroken form. That is, if the single/multi lifter is cracked or outright broken. If it is just a crack and the pieces are intact, it's a better repair but we'd need to know exactly where it is broken... to do that it gets disassembled and it is easy to get one or more parts reassembled incorrectly. 50-100 pictures as it gets disassembled would not be excessive, then put them on the tablet for reference during reassembly. There is still confusion about over-or-under this-or-that, and springs and screws etc.

I have read that it is the ears which sometimes likely get broken, not the case with the one I had. The trouble was a jagged sheared barrel. If the ears were broken, it may not be repairable, depending upon how much material there would be to work with there.

This mechanism affects other functions. To get fixed, it comes apart whether it's to be repaired or replaced. It cannot simply be glued together IMO as it is under constant upward spring pressure, so the spring is continually trying to push apart the glue joint. The destructive pressure always succeeds unless the joint is solid. I think I may have used 9 pins; set them in with a hot screwdriver, then smoothed the plastic over them one at a time. I started by doing one on each side to hold the position, then adding more. Using Superglue to join the pieces first might help with that aspect but it wouldn't last without reinforcement. Allow it to set, then sink the pins.

A tiny groove needs to be created for each pin so it won't roll off during heating, and the effect is messy therefore spreading the melted plastic around helps to cover each reinforcement. After, it must be finished so there's no rubbing anywhere. I filled weak spots and imperfections with JB weld and allowed to set. Sanded it again, verified no binding, painted these parts satin black (thin not thick), polished it and reassembled. It held, and worked. It's not a gimbal so doesn't require that kind of precision, but it needs not to bind or rub in the slightest. I don't really look forward to the next one but I'd probably be able to do it more efficiently now. A technician would not do this, the billing time element would not work. The ring on the underside, if that were the only issue, is a cakewalk.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dualcan » 01 May 2014 01:57

Hi,
If you are going to attempt to repair this unit you must read and understand the service manual thoroughly prior to doing anything on this tonearm. The system is complicated but can be done if you follow the proper steps.
So much for the warning- now here is what I believe is the main problem on these arms. They all are 30/40 years old. Lubrication turns to glue. The O ring item 230 (called rubber washer by some translator at the factory...) is cracked or broken. First you need to make a cradle for this unit BEFORE turning it up side down (see motor service for details on cardboard gadget).
It is a good idea to take an egg crate and mark the item nr in each pocket where you will put item x into. Later, on reassembly spring 237 and 241 for example, won't get mixed up etc...
Here we go: Remove the main-lever 184 (watch for flying c clips 245) plus the cue lever 270 (via screw 169). Now you have better access to see the o ring and clean the swivel system (Multi/single)
If you want to do a thorough cleaning lubrication job, you can, without disturbing the four gimbal screws. Here's how: Tracking force, set to 0 (remove head-shell/cart of course)
Unsolder the tonearm leads to muting switch 151. Items 184 and 270 are off already or take off now. Unhook springs 237 and 241. Unhook antiskate spring CAREFULLY and do not disturb the red or blue glypthol seal with the c ring! Now remove the rear protection plate 233 with screws 227. Remove C clip 266 and don't let it fly across the room... Remove the anti-skate lever 267. Remove shut off slide 253 (don't loose steel ball 168) from segment 201 via c clip and washer 272, 271 and watch them fly- they'll be easier to find that way... Take of nut 236. Flip unit over carefully and set multi/single switch to "multi" and rotate outer gimbal ring counterclockwise to max possible. Complete tonearm / gimbal can now be lifted out of the turntable. Now you can clean all the sliding points with alcohol and relube as per instruction SPARINGLY. I believe Don has a new O ring. If not, take the old one to a bearing supply shop. These shops tend to have o rings in various shapes. Don't loose the two steel balls in the process! If you are this far then by all means do the cueing lift a favour and refill. Let me know if that is your choice and I'll give you separate hints for that.
Again, Read the manual several times and familiarize your movements prior to doing anything. Take your time and do one step after another with pics and a coffee between... If you do not force anything, nothing will brake, because this thing is built like a tank- ok a delicate tank...
If help is needed - just shout!
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 01 May 2014 02:22

Yes, all true and I was jumping the gun when assuming the single/multi "jack" as I like to call it, is broken. If not, then it really is a matter of servicing following all Klaus' steps, a relief. I have a replacement ring, and the two ball bearings. Also have the ball for the sliding trip lever if that's ever needed. And the one which really likes to fly, the speed change ball. The original rings are all at the point of failure, that is one thing I've noticed. These are often the reason the single-multi jack is breaking, on the models that have them and of the ones which are forced, as they are becoming hard as bakelite....just about.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 01 May 2014 14:29

Wow. Thanks for the excellent replys, but not what I wanted to hear. I am afraid I am scared off now. I think this project may be over my heeadd. This 1229 was my "best friend" and workhorse for many years. I would be mad at myself if I trashed it. I am going to take some time for reflection and may come back possibly in a trading forum.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dualcan » 02 May 2014 17:36

Hi Again,
I would hate to see you loose this excellent turntable also.
May I suggest that you could start by redoing the motor as lined out in the guide as a way to get yourself acquainted with this unit? This guide also applies to the other turntables you mentioned, save the 704. We made sure to give step-by step instructions for this purpose. If you have the slightest ability with basic tools, then you can master this (motor overhaul) step. Once confident with this procedure, the tonearm removal is not that more complicated, I assure you. I know that I covered the whole gamut, but it is a relatively simple mechanical job, which can be taken slowly in steps -interspersed with coffee!-
You will be happy with your achievements, I am sure. The mechanics of the 1229 is a refinement from the 1009, so it is doable!! The manual also has excellent points of reference and we are here to see you through.
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 09 May 2014 23:37

dualcan wrote:Hi Again,
I would hate to see you loose this excellent turntable also.
The mechanics of the 1229 is a refinement from the 1009, so it is doable!! The manual also has excellent points of reference and we are here to see you through.
Regards,
k
Thanks a bunch. I have just returned and have several home responsibilities to catch up on, and then I think I will give it a try. It may have to wait on the bench a while.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by Dualmaniac » 05 Jul 2014 00:03

I finally got time and courage to get my 1229 on the bench with mixed results.
I opened the motor and serviced it according to instructions here, and awesome awesome the speed variation is gone.
The single / multi lift was broken, came out in pieces. Now i wonder what few options I have. I can lock the tonearm down in the single position with some backyard "engineering" and it will track well and sound great manual only. The automatic movements will try, but there is a lift plate that has to be just so-so and I don't see any method to hold it thus. I hope there a reason to hope.

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by dualcan » 05 Jul 2014 01:57

Hi,
Can you give item nr. for the broken bits?
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 1229 Repair

Post by mrow2 » 05 Jul 2014 07:14

You should be able to find a replacement tonearm-assembly-complete, and at least in the past, they have been reasonably priced. Naturally the single multi lift jack thing (might be "locating lever" #70 in the view, hard to tell) must be intact. Out of curiosity, how many parts is yours in? If something like 3 equal pieces it could possibly be repaired. Your best hope is to replace the tonearm. You do not really want to remove the old one til the new one is there. You must get the new one in place exactly the same way, lots of photos before and during removal. A small mistake prevents it from working. It is possible you can use a 1219 tonearm, which would substantially widen the choices for a replacement, Klaus might need to sign off on that. The attached tonearm headshell from the old one could be moved to the replacement if that is important provided the re-wiring does not create any issues. I think the wires should hopefully just feed through. It is not likely you would find a replacement lifter jack/lever assembly apart from a tonearm complete and if so, the price might be close to the same. I'd imagine any leftover parts would be marketable, to help defray the overall cost.

There is a spring in place which keeps this part under continual tension, so it cannot simply be glued together. It will come apart. It must be pinned, as a surgeon pins a pelvis, humerus or femur. Very difficult to do. The entire tonearm depends on it. I do not know if the backyard fix is possible, to simply stabilize it for the single play mode and retain auto functions. I am thinking it might create problems, it is a rather intricate and odd design.

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