Dual 604 tonearm will not return

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Kevin Skub
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Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Kevin Skub » 03 Apr 2014 05:28

help! (please)

Like many others I have a Dual turntable that is semi automatic but will not return to the rest. Unlike all of the information I can find here, my turntable is an early 70's 604 (Maybe not the most collectable but I like it) and the mechanisms seem to look different than most of the posts here.

The arm comes back to about an inch of where it supposed to end up in the rest. I know it should work as it worked quite a few times right after I bought it 6 months ago. Can anyone advise what might be some of the common problems? I don't believe I have a "steuerpimpel". I have attached a picture if anyone would care to point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Kevin
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Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Tinkaroo » 03 Apr 2014 09:56

The 604 is a very good turntable. I've owned one since new in about 1978.

I suspect the problem is probably the steuerpimpel you mentioned which tend to fail after a number of years.

Luckily for you there are a couple of real experts on how to replace them here who will try to help you. There are also service manuals available for download in the library section as well as a sticky at the top of the Dual forum.

mrow2
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by mrow2 » 03 Apr 2014 19:26

It's my recollection this model has the conventional steuerpimpel; at least it is from the era during which they were used. Some models actually partially work without them, but not always reliably. I think the 701 is one like that and the 604 may be as well, don't know for certain. You can see more about it in my classified listing here and it includes a detailed service PDF guide as well.

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 03 Apr 2014 22:56

Hi Kevin,
I was sure that you were wrong in saying that your TT has no "steuerpimpel" and agree with both Don and Tinkaroo. We all were wrong and you were right. The 604 has no lower pimple but does have an upper sleeve/guide, not a pimple either. Reading the manual a few times, I remembered that this unit, contrary to almost all the other (Dual)automatics and semi automatics does not use a traditional main lever but splits the job of tonearm return between,
a: tonearm lift; done with the same lever as the cue lift lever 219 and
b: tonearm return movement done by the push action of levers 188/174
Since there is no traditional pimple then the problem I would think lies in the tonearm height / cue adjustment being too tight at first glance.
Look at Fig 8 page 8 in the service manual and find the guide 202 (it's the conical plastic guide/sleeve under the tonearm, right behind / near the vertical tracking adj. wheel) and adjustment screw 57 (directly under the counterweight securing screw).
To adjust:
Balance tonearm and apply tracking force as usual.
Pull cueing lever into raised position.
Distance between record and stylus should be between 5 to 7 mm;
adjust with 202.
You will still need 1 to 2 mm free play on the tonearm (headroom over the maximum 7mm);
adjust with set screw 57.
Let me know if this cures it!
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by mrow2 » 04 Apr 2014 00:30

This explains why I could not recall how the 604 looked when I had one last fall for some cosmetic refinishing. The turntable worked fine, I would have checked the pimpel just to be sure it was not going to fall off, but I could not recall what I saw. I went on to restore it fully and someone got that beauty for the holiday season. I wish I had photographed this arrangement. I liked the turntable a lot and almost kept it.... had to decide between that and a very pristine 1019, and opted to keep a 1019 instead. No basement, an aggressive turntable police-state, it adds up to hobby storage limitations and very limited freedoms. Mea culpa on the Dual 604.

Kevin Skub
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Kevin Skub » 05 Apr 2014 04:22

Wow thanks for all the help. I can believe how much information is available and how quick the responses are thanks again!

I have not had a chance until just now to read through all these great responses but few clarifications would be great

Dualcan you make references to a service manual but the only service manual I have is the one I downloaded from here - and it is in German. I will look at this and see it jives with your directions. Do you know where I can find a proper Manual? And about the reference to the VTA adjustment... I was looking for way to do this some months ago and everything I read about the turntable told me that it was not a feature that came with this unit??? In other words the tone arm height was not adjustable?? I would really like to make this adjustment this as my cartridge is very tall and I think the angle is wrong.

Kevin

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 05 Apr 2014 16:17

Hi Kevin,
That is the manual I used, but I agree its not in English, so I will download that version later today. It will need a day or two to clear admin.
My mistake in terminology: for "near the vertical tracking adj wheel, I meant the tracking FORCE adj. wheel or spring housing wheel item 60.
The 604 does not have the adjustable tonearm base so cartridge alignment is done on the front end with spacers and guide:28636286352863428633 The picture is of the TK14 but your TK24 is just a slim version of same.
You can adjust the stylus/cartridge by measurement provided.
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 06 Apr 2014 20:39

Hi Kevin,
The English version of the 604 manual is now on line.
Regards,
k

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Tinkaroo » 06 Apr 2014 20:49

Hi Klaus:

Thanks for that, since I could use that manual too.

Does this model and the 621 have the exploding frogs too?

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 06 Apr 2014 21:42

Hi Tinkaroo,
Here is a list composed by ZIVI of dual-board.de
The list is from October 2012 and may be incomplete. I see the turntables list don't have the 502 504 510 listed but I think they are also listed in later additions. The definite thing to do is to open the power switch and see if these RIFA's are present. On models that use the SM100 motors, they are in the combined AC switch and pc board assembly. On these (504/1,2 etc,) you can have 3
of them!!
This board is for serious Dual enthusiasts with some PE and Miracords allowed...
It is very detailed and many pro's are on it:
http://www.dual-board.de/
To register use the Registrierung button top line, left/middle. Dualfred and Lini are also present there. Highly recommended.

Regards,
k

Verstärker: (amplifiers) (mit = with; ohne = Without)
- CV31: mit
- CV 61: mit
- CV 120: mit
- CV 121: mit
- CV 240: mit
- CV 440: mit (2 Stück, 0,01 µF) (2 condensers)
- CV 441: ohne
- CV 1100: ohne
- CV 1150: mit
- CV 1200: mit
- CV 1250: mit
- CV 1400: mit
- CV 1450: mit
- CV 1460: ohne
- CV 1500: mit
- CV 1600: mit
- CV 1700: mit

Tuner:
- CT 8: mit
- CT 16: ohne
- CT 19: ohne
- CT 1140: ohne
- CT 1240: mit
- CT 1250: ohne
- CT 1440: mit
- CT 1260: mit
- CT 1450: ohne
- CT 1460: mit
- CT 1540: mit
- CT 1640: ohne
- CT 1641: ohne
- CT 1740: ohne

Receiver:
- CR 1710: ohne
- CR 1730: mit(soweit ich weiß: harmlos, kein Knallfrosch!) (Not Rifa/no problem)
- CR 1780: mit(soweit ich weiß: harmlos, kein Knallfrosch!)

Kassettendecks:
- C 804: mit
- C 809: ohne
- C 810: mit
- C 819: mit
- C 820: mit
- C 828: mit
- C 830: mit
- C 839: mit
- C 844: mit
- C 901: mit (68 nF)
- C 919: mit (68 nF)
- C 939: mit

Plattenspieler:
- CS 508: mit
- CS 521: mit (3 Stück) (3 pieces-condensers)
- CS 522: mit (3 Stück)
- CS 528: mit (2 Stück)
- CS 601: mit
- CS 604: mit
- CS 606: mit
- CS 621: mit
- CS 622: mit
- CS 626: mit (+ Front)
- CS 650: mit
- CS 701: mit
- CS 704: mit
- CS 714: mit
- CS 721: mit
- CS 731 Q: mit (+ Front) (+ on frontpanel)
- CS 741 Q: mit
- CS 10xx: mit ähnlichen (with similar types)
- CS 1209: ohne
- CS 121x: ohne
- CS 122x: mit
- CS 123x: mit (CS 1239 A rosita: 3 Stück)
- CS 124x: mit

Anlagen:
- HS 34: ohne
- HS 50: mit
- HS 130 + 1224: Ja
- HS 141: mit
- KA 32: mit
- KA 50: ohne
- KA 230: ohne
- KA 380: mit

Stand: 28. Oktober 2012

Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Tinkaroo » 06 Apr 2014 22:02

Hi Klaus:

I had a look at the site, but needed to use the translate function on my search engine. Needless to say the translations result in some very interesting conversations.

I saw where they had a discussion of the 701 which was worthwhile reading.

Apparently the only way to know if one has frogs about to explode is to look under the hood.

Speaking of frogs,now that spring is here,I'm expecting the peepers to start peeping from the pond next to my house, which drives my border collie completely mental.

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 06 Apr 2014 22:25

...whereas my eight pounds of furry (yorky/bichon, AKA Lady T as in Trouble and I's got Lady Trouble....)goes mental with the squirrels..
-and now back to our regular scheduled program- as Larry Henderson would say.
k

Kevin Skub
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Kevin Skub » 09 Apr 2014 03:17

Klaus,

Thanks very much for getting the manual. I am going to get it and see if can follow your advice.

Kevin

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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by dualcan » 09 Apr 2014 04:48

Hi Kevin,
You are very welcome!
I am slowly working through the turntables manual in the library and plugging holes of missing manuals. Having gone through the 500 series, which I believe is now complete, I will start to look at the 600 for missing manuals, time permitting. I also tend to look at
http://wegavision.pytalhost.com/dual.html
and their library as source.
Regards,
k

Kevin Skub
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Re: Dual 604 tonearm will not return

Post by Kevin Skub » 11 Apr 2014 18:01

Klaus,

Just a general question. I have a bit of a technical background but have never really worked on turntables in my entire life. I know a bit about mechanical things and have formal training and experience in industrial electronics and low power electrical stuff.

I enjoy restoring or repairing older things but have not really dove into stereo equipment (A different stream when I went to college) Sound quality is very important to me but so is the history and satisfaction of using a 45 year old (almost as old as I am) table. I seem to spending allot of time on this table which I only I paid $125.00 for and most of it is trying to wrap my head around how it works without destroying it in the process. Sadly, I think CDs still sound noticeably better on my system and I am planning to try a different new cartridge to see if that makes a difference

Question: From a sound quality perspective would I be better off purchasing a new one? I don't mind the work or the research and I really appreciate this forum but I can tell I am way out of my league.

thanks for your opinion
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