Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record drop

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dualcan
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Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record drop

Post by dualcan » 07 Feb 2014 05:00

Someone asked me to explain how to open a automatic drop spindle AW3 and/or adjust a 1229Q which refused to drop records with said spindle. I thought this might be of general interest, therefore I post the reply again in this thread. This adjustment is valid for all changerS that use the AW3 spindle. Just use the appropriate manual for your changer, once you have studied the 1229Q version.

Do not disassemble these spindles because they are extremely complex! The rest of the turntable is child's play against these spindles... The term extreme masochism is an understatement compared to what awaits the person attempting to put one of these back together...
Now that this is said, Let's examine how the spindle works.
The spindle has two sets of "fingers". The upper three fingers face downwards and the other three upwards. To see if the spindle functions, first get a washer or two to simulate a record. I use a 3/4" od washer with an id (inside diameter)hole of 5/16" and a thickness of 1/16" a little too thick but it will work and readily available.
The spindle, in a relaxed state will have both sets of finger extended outwards. When the spindle is pushed down onto a hard surface, the upper finger set withdraws inwards and the lower set raises by 2 mm.
Drop the washer on the relaxed spindle. Keep the washer straight/not lopsided! It is first held by the upper fingers. Push the spindle down onto a surface and hold it down. The washer now drops onto the lower finger tops (because of the washer thickness you may need to help the washer fall with slight downward pressure). Release the spindle and the washer will fall down the spindle. You may use two washers to simulate two records. If all this happens then spindle is OK.
If this is not the case, then perhaps it might be a bit dry and a touch of contact cleaner/WD40 will help. To this end,remove the white plastic top. Spray a tiny bit into the top,and do the same on the bottom. Now compress the spindle downward (bottom onto hard surface)several times.
If the spindle is ok, we need to look at the TT.
When the spindle is inserted,(TT in standby/off mode) the spindle is compressed by the same 2mm, while inserting and locking. That is the adjustment you need to make on the changer. Professionally we use a gauge for this: 28126
To achieve this without the gauge follow this procedure:28122I am pointing to a wheel on the cam rocker (173) that follows the cam,and the other end of this cam rocker, is the change actuator stud 177, which touches the bottom of the spindle. This stud 177 is part of the eccentric screw with a six point face. This eccentric screw must be adjusted to give you the 2 mm. Look at drawing fig 20 (record drop) of the 1229Q manual.
There is a mistake in the text next to the pic. It should read ".....pushing the change actuator stud 177" not 206!
While you are on this cam rocker, make sure the wheel on the cam rocker I pointed to, is free turning to prevent cam wear. The one in the picture was frozen solid and needed quite a cleaning to get it turning again.
Regards,
k

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualcan » 09 Feb 2014 19:20

Here are some pictures of various spindles and inner parts to the AW3. Also pictured is the alignment tool for multi-play adjustment for all Dual changers after the 1005 model and the 3000 series of PE changers.
k285622856328564

fscl
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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by fscl » 12 Feb 2014 00:31

dualcan wrote:Here are some pictures of various spindles and inner parts to the AW3. Also pictured is the alignment tool for multi-play adjustment for all Dual changers after the 1005 model and the 3000 series of PE changers.
k28563
Klaus,

Thank you so much for posting these pictures. I have a question, as the rubber pads have since disintegrated from my AW3 changer spindle. What can be used to replicate / duplicate the pads shown above.

Thanks in advance.

Fred

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualcan » 12 Feb 2014 01:34

Wrong spindle! The rubber pads are on the longer AW2 spindle for the 1000 series. The picture shows the parts of the (shorter) AW3. The AW 2 (Abwurfsäule), in the box next to it, is New Old Stock (never used) and the pads disintegrated when I opened the box... You can see on the close up that the pads are missing. Sooo, I too have to fix.. Thanks to Heinz "hephaistos" at dual-board for this. Here's how he did it:
http://www.dual-board.de/index.php?page ... adID=11460
Here is Heinz's "hephaistos" text in English:

Hello,
Here's my version to replace the defective rubber pads.
1 Remove the plastic cap from the top with a knife.
2 With a sharp object ( ed:centre-punch),press the disc (ed: Same disc seen in my photo under white cap) in the spindle slightly downward while twisting 1/6th revolution, then the disc and a spring pops out.
3 Push/pull out the brass part with the 3 copper leaf springs and pull out the small tapered rotary member, don't loose it and remember orientation!!
4 Get a soft rubber hose 6mm outer diameter and 8mm long cut ( silicone hose from model airplane as a fuel hose is ideal). Slide the piece of tube carefully over the 3 copper springs . Sand the piece of tube triangular like the brass part . The three remaining webs should be the width of the original pads.(ed: must pass through the slots )
5 Now reassemble in reverse order and enjoy !

If you are a masochist and in need of pain, then open the lower section, Insanity is assured! (I know of what he speaks an have never been the same again.....)

Regards Heinz

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by ren2112 » 27 Dec 2014 10:10

Morning,one of the rubber pads on my AW3 just popped out. Can I glue it back into the slot? What glue can I use?

Thanks in advance
Ren

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by Dualmaniac » 27 Dec 2014 12:06

dualcan wrote:Wrong spindle! The rubber pads are on the longer AW2 spindle for the 1000 series.
Here's my version to replace the defective rubber pads.
My 1015 spindle pads disintegrated to dust. Can you give this replacement procedure a difficulty rating? Do you think I can do this, or would opening it up only cause frustration and new cursing vocabulary?

Cheers,
md

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dharvey1976 » 12 Nov 2015 17:19

I have the aw2 (the taller one) has anyone take the lower end apart. mine was gummed up now i am having a hard time getting back togather

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualcan » 12 Nov 2015 20:13

Hi,
To Mike:
Apologies; I haven't looked into this query before. I have started experimenting with the spindle/3 tabs and am not satisfied yet with the results...
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The tabs need to be aligned/shaped better because the stacked records are not horizontal all the time. These yellow inserts/tabs are simply the appropriate sized ( AW slit opening) outer sleeve of wires, glued (real carefully...) with super contact cement. I did not remove the guts to glue them , hence carefull glueing...
To dharvey:
I haven't opened the bottom in a loooong time but it is devils work to get stuff back in..
At a more opportune moment (read calmer nerves...) I'll "re-discover" this PITA...
Regards,
k

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualset84 » 21 Jan 2016 21:09

Good evening everyone, I wanted to know if someone could tell me AW3 spindle (for 12xx series) is also compatible with the 10xx series, (especially with the Dual 1019) because the AS9 45 rpm spindle (10xx series) is perfectly also compatible with my Dual 1211.

I ask this because my AW2 spindle is damaged and does not work:

it holds all records locked with its 3 small legs, but when it occurs the step of positioning, it slides records all together, not individually (and what does not seem to relate to, lack of rubber bearings) but a real malfunction because the small copper plates above that should support the previous record do not move completely, and records slip all together at the same time!

It would be very helpful if someone can give me a possibility to fix it; or tell me if the AW3 spindle can be mounted in a dual 10xx series!
(Recently many auctions for AW3 and nothing for AW2).

Thanks for your help

P.S. it is hard for me to explain this in English, but I can insert or send photos of my damaged spindle!
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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualcan » 21 Jan 2016 23:19

Hi,
The AW2/AS9 for the 1000 series and the AW3/AS12 spindles for the 1200 series can not be interchanged because they are not compatible. As well the "fix" I tried on the AW2 above, is not reliable because occasionally the upper stack of discs is slanted and the arm cannot move under same stack.
As soon as a proper solution is found I will post it, because this is a very big problem.
Regards,
k

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by pwreimers » 11 May 2016 15:07

dualcan wrote:Hi,
... the "fix" I tried on the AW2 above, is not reliable because occasionally the upper stack of discs is slanted and the arm cannot move under same stack.
As soon as a proper solution is found I will post it, because this is a very big problem.
Regards,
k
Klaus & others--
Another post (viewtopic.php?f=37&t=67075&p=720770#p720770) gives a method to repair the AW2 spindle using 6.5mm lengths of 1.2mm (.063") square rubber cut from a cassette belt to replace the pads.
I was pleased with the ease of this repair. It takes a steady hand. I did the repair in 20 minutes plus the cement wait time yesterday. To test, I stacked five 200gm records six or eight times and the spindle worked very well.
Regards,
Pete

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualset84 » 11 May 2016 16:32

Hey, thank you very much, I'll see it soon....but I think I will have to buy a new one, because mine was damaged, but the instructions will be used to understand how to repair it.

PS I finally bought my Dual 1019 a few months ago, but now I have a stupid problem, but annoying!

I connected it to a Augusta Amplifier (I attach the picture) and I installed a Dual CDS 630 cartridge, but when I tried it the sound comes out too strong totally distorted (I can not even increase to the level 2).

The difference between the original cartridge fitted in it (CDS 650) and my CDS 630 is small and does not justify the issue, this is right?

Many thanks, always, for any help and advice!
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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualset84 » 11 May 2016 17:31

Sorry I forgot .....

originally, to overcome the problem of two Pin DIN Plug audio speakers (that I have not, yet), which must be to 8ohm, and I tried to plug headphones into the headphone hole, but the sound continues to be distorted, even there!

I do not have a needle for Dual CDS 650 cartridge, I still have to buy it, but is that the real problem? #-o

Thanks!

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Re: Servicing an automatic spindle AW3 /adjusting record dro

Post by dualcan » 11 May 2016 22:54

Hi,
Make sure that the CDS cartridges 630 and 650 which are ceramic types, are connected into a line level input such as Tape or Tuner input. If the phono input is equipped with a preamp than is why you have a too loud signal. These inputs are reserved for a magnetic cartridge.
Regards,
k

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Dual 1019 + augusta Clipper 2° D + Dual CDS 630

Post by dualset84 » 12 May 2016 08:41

Good morning and thank you very much for your prompt response.
This ampli- fier, have only the following inputs

- Radio
- Tape
- Pick up
- Mono-Stereo

When I listen a record (with headphones and with any speakers) to hear anything I must select the "Pick-up" mode.

This amplifier, originally was equipped with a Dual 1211 with a Dual CDS 650 cartridge in the model Clipper D (as in the previous photo attached).

There was also another version of this, the "Clipper M" where it was a different turntable, "BSR P 128" with an original magnetic cartridge "Excel Sound Corp ES/70/S".

But anyway, when I tried to assemble a magnetic cartridge in my dual 1019 (Audio Technica AT95E) the signal was too low and very low sound!

It is an incredible thing! If it originally had a ceramic cartridge CDS 650, similar to my CDS 630, it is absurd that it reproduces this distorted sound!

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