Need help with Dual 1218

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spflpete
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Need help with Dual 1218

Post by spflpete » 25 Jan 2020 22:50

My new to me 1218 has one problem that I can't figure out. When the tonearm gets close to the end of the
record it skips; a light push usually results in a few more notes playing and then the skip again. Sometimes the tonearm picks up and goes to the rest stop and shuts down. It seems like the tonearm is hanging up on something preventing it from playing on, but it takes a tiny nudge to make it move. The tonearm seems to be free and floating when pushed without a record.

I've messed with it enough to realize it's not obvious to me where else to look. I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction to fix this. Thanks in advance.

Pete

dualcan
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by dualcan » 25 Jan 2020 23:01

Hi Pete,
Whenever a tonearm is hesitant the first thing to check is if the arm and bearings are ok.
To do this, perform the bearing test:
Here is the procedure to check both vertical and horizontal planes:

Vertical test:
1. Set arm for zero tracking force and zero antiskate force.
2. Balance arm perfectly (perhaps without stylus for safety) .
3. * Place arm between platter and rest post, so it can descent. *
4. Drop a stamp on the head (over cartridge).
Arm must descent all the way for the 500, 600, 700, 1200 series, most of the way for 1000 series with tk 12 headshells and at least lower somewhat for 1009, the lower, the better obviously...
If arm moves without hesitation then vertical bearings are ok.
*Note: for the 1219/1229/1229Q, there is a rubber bridge mounted left of and into the rest post, pivoting on a chrome shaft. This rubber bridge can be shifted/removed to enable a proper vertical test.

Horizontal test:
1. Balance arm as before (no stylus-no stamp...)
2. Apply 0.5 anti-skate on any side of the anti-skate dial or under the tone arm.
3. Bring arm towards center of record.
4. Let arm go.
Arm must return all the way back to rest post without hesitation.
If arm moves without hesitation, then horizontal bearings are ok.
That's it for the test.

Providing the arm clears all the way from record center to rest stop, the issue then might be with the arm settings.
Post what you find from the test, to take it further,
Regards,
k

spflpete
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by spflpete » 26 Jan 2020 12:38

Hello K,

Both tests seem fine, but I notice on the horizontal test that the tonearm stops one and a half inches from the record hole; it does not go all the way to the spindle -- is this normal?

Thanks,
Pete

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by DSJR » 26 Jan 2020 13:06

Yes it is...

I'd better demur to Dualcan Klaus for further advice, as I suspect it'll mean looking at and servicing the parts (trip friction lever and pawl and almost certainly the pivoted follower) on the cam. The Dualcan tumblr site is a mine of seriously useful information on servicing Duals properly.

Just to add. Modern Duals have an excellent basic auto mechanism design, but generally, they're finer and more delicate than say, Garrards, which plough on through timespan-hardening lubricants until the grease and oils turn almost to araldite... I'd advise proceeding with great care and caution as the 1218 is a really nice player of records and well worth the effort at the end :D

spflpete
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by spflpete » 26 Jan 2020 14:09

DSJR,

I have a belt drive Ariston rd80 and a direct drive Technics sl 1350 and they each have their own sound voices.
I want to add an idler drive for extra push that they give to the sound. Thanks for the 1218 advice.

Pete

nonost
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by nonost » 26 Jan 2020 15:17

Hi! That's the end of the shut off lever (248), that is bent to one side and gets stuck. All you have to do is straighten it.

Cheers!

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by dualcan » 26 Jan 2020 18:05

Hi,
The tonearm does not go all the way to record center, just somewhat into the label area. This is due to the arm linkages, required for the levers used in the (automatic) arm transport.
Be very careful in bending the shape of the shut-off lever. If there are no pliers marks, leave it alone. The front tip that connects/touches the (yellow) cam's shut off plate, has a special shape which must stay in the original position, otherwise the end-of-play detection and transport will be affected.
Coming back to the fact that the arm/stylus plays for most of the record, but skips near the end, and given the fact that the vertical/horizontal friction is ok, it would seem that the arm/stylus is not allowed to go low enough into the record surface.
Dual platters are for the most part concave with a depressed center. This is done on purpose to ensure the record is laying flat on the outermost circumference for both LP's and 45's. This was made necessary when RCA and Co., brought out the lightweight and floppier records. The center depression also allows the labels to float in empty space.
To see if this is a problem, unplug the TT, place the arm/stylus right beside the platter and see how low it can go. Very carefully (don't rotate the platter !) bring the arm over the platter and without record, the stylus should touch the platter mat.
If it does not, the arm adjustments need to be corrected or the cartridge is too "short" on the cartridge holder. Post what you find and if necessary we'll get into the arm adjustments.
Regards,
k

spflpete
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by spflpete » 26 Jan 2020 22:58

I looked at part 248 and it appears right, but it is fairly loose and can be jiggled on that ball bearing that it rides on.

The stylus goes about one half inch below the mat.

I thought maybe the tonearm liftpost might be a bit high and rubbing as the arm moved across the record,but after
lowering it so there was a clear gap, the skip remains.

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by jrydel » 28 Jan 2020 20:48

Have Dual 1218 T540. Loose grey wire and can't determine where it came loose. Need wiring diagram.

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by dualcan » 28 Jan 2020 22:33

Hi Jrydel,
May I suggest opening a separate post rather than piggy-backing onto a post that is not yet completed.
It gets confusing to answer interspersed requests.

Regarding the skipping, we established that the arm is unencumbered in both planes and that it can dip below the platter surface.
Let's do a proper set up of the arm- just in case.
Unplug power to TT.
Balance arm and set to proper tracking force and anti skate.
The cueing system, not engaged (cue stick slanted backwards- as in pic).

In the text below read operating lever as "..tonearm over "Start" lever (45)"
1218 page 7.jpg
(107.91 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
For "Rotate cam 143.." do the following:
Press Start key (remember - no power) and turn platter by hand till the arm is "....raised completely and swing arm over restpost"
Now, adjust plastic nut 55 in back of arm till there is a slight clearance (0.1mm) between upper pimple 63 and the underside of the black tonearm ledge (which upper pimple touches). I've represented this clearance as a small green line in second pic. This tiny clearance can also be measured as the distance (0.5mm) between the rest post and the bottom surface of the arm's head. If it's a bit more, that will be ok as well.
1218 2.jpg
(135.56 KiB) Downloaded 39 times
Now the arm/stylus should track.
If there is a problem getting these alignment points, the arm tube may have been bent.
Another source of non tracking besides an insufficient tracking force can be a defective stylus, but that would show up just about all the sound tracks on record.
Post what you find.
Regards,
k

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by lreneat » 29 Jan 2020 06:26

I had this same kind of problem. I suggest removing the cartridge sled and then look at the moving parts on the the lower area under the base of the tonearm while slowly moving tonearm in and out. You may have a rub problem due to how tight the tolerances are of lower moving part. Look at the metal shield to see if there is item rubbing behind it. Adjust and perhaps partially bend culprit part enough to stop the moving rub problem.

spflpete
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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by spflpete » 30 Jan 2020 15:33

Thanks to all who offered help.

My turntable is now working properly.

I can't say that I know exactly what fixed it because I did several things without testing in between.

I re-cleaned the entire machine, loosened and tightened the horizontal tonearm bearing, and adjusted the tonearm cueing height.

Nice sound with great drive on classic rock music; I expect improvement when I change out the Ortofon Omega cartridge
that the seller put on it; the Omega is great for its price and good for casual listening, but doesn't have the separation or deep soundstage that I know other cartridges can provide for more critical listening.

Thanks,

Pete

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Re: Need help with Dual 1218

Post by DSJR » 31 Jan 2020 09:16

The Omega body should take the 20 (and upwards) styli without much issue but if you'd like a change, I think the AT range are really good these days and not too demanding on the tonearm either. The ATVM95EN or ML and VM 530 and 540 should be great, despite the effective length of the arm not being quite as long as the decks with 12" platters. As long as the overhang is set correctly at side end (58 - 60mm from disc centre as set on a 'card type' protractor, corresponds to the Dual gauge).

There are many past threads concerning setting the balance between the maximum arm height #55, lift height with thumb nut #65 above and lastly the cueing height, it's a shame it can't be made a 'sticky.'

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