just acquired a CS728Q

twice the fun
RetiredBob
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just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 08 Jan 2020 18:50

The CS728Q looks to be in pretty good shape. The needle is a “Ortofon DN 155E”.

Back in the ‘70s I bought a new CS714Q with a Shure V15. No longer have it. Am recently retired and am getting back into vinyl.

Downloaded the CS728Q owner & service manuals. The owners manual is in only German, so I downloaded the CS741Q owner manual to use as a proxy.

Does the forum have a guide for how to rehab the TT?

A new needle seems rather pricey. Any recommendations for a better performing replacement cartridge?

RetiredBob
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 08 Jan 2020 23:18

The lift button doesn’t raise the arm nearly enough. An adjustment via the lift adjuster screw doesn’t help much.
The adjustment range for the tonearm landing point also isn’t enough.

The service manual doesn’t provide any insight into how to adjust/fix the mechanism.
Any links or suggestions?

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 09 Jan 2020 02:39

Hooked the TT up to my stereo & it sounded better than I was expecting.
Might just be a keeper if I get the tonearm mechanism sorted out, and buy new needle or cartridge.

I wasn’t 100% sold on getting back into vinyl. If I don’t fix the TT, then the $90 was worth spending on testing the waters.
Spent some time online looking for a hifi store with refurbished Duals and didn’t find any near me. Thinking about a new Thorens or Fluance.

DSJR
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by DSJR » 09 Jan 2020 11:37

Thorens seem very overpriced these days to be honest.

Regarding the tonearm lift, I wonder if the usual 'pimpel' issues are causing it. Worth checking even if it's not the problem but of course the cueing side away from the mech doesn't use the main lever and pimpel - duh!.

P.S. careful siting is vital for decks like this

RetiredBob
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 09 Jan 2020 12:46

Thanks for the response.

I did a forum search and found this topic about the steuerpimpels & servicing/restoration: viewtopic.php?t=69356

Forum member mrow2 authored that topic and has the guide listed on eBay as seller mrow22. I ordered the guide. He also sells the steuerpimpels & grease. All at very reasonable prices.
Will review the guide before proceeding.

DSJR
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by DSJR » 09 Jan 2020 20:24

The 728 and related decks do seem slightly different to the more conventional models and I'd suggest (granny sucking eggs) that you proceed with caution.

Good luck :)

lini
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by lini » 10 Jan 2020 13:41

Bob: Instead of a different cartridge I'd suggest to consider the new BlackDiamond replacement needle for these Dual-Ortofon carts: https://mrstylus.com/en/product/dual-dn ... k-diamond/

That needle is very attractively priced for a nude elliptical and would be a bit of an upgrade compared to the DN155E. And with that you could continue to use your already existing cartridge and wouldn't need to bother with halfinch-mount adaptor plates and add-on weight discs for the counterweight.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by dualcan » 10 Jan 2020 13:49

Hi Manfred,
That is really a super deal- I was not aware of this stylus. Even though I have a couple of original ortofon 155's left, I certainly will keep this in mind.
Cheers to München!
Klaus

DSJR
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by DSJR » 10 Jan 2020 17:01

That's incredibly cheap for a naked elliptical...

I bought a Dual cartridge carrier from Mr Stylus some years back and thought they'd gone. Glad they haven't, but prices have certainly risen over the years :D

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by lini » 10 Jan 2020 20:51

Klaus: You're Welcome. If you let Chris know, that you're a Dual-Board member, there should even be a little rebate, iirc.


DSJR: I thought so, too, but apparently just the shop owner has changed (again). I.e., founded by Herbert Walter, the shop first went to Roland Walter and now to Christian Hofner.

Those new BlackDiamond needles come under the "analogis" brand, though - which is the "house brand" of the Phono Zubehör Vertrieb in Falkensee, which also is the German distributor for Nagaoka.

However, Thakker(.eu) now seems to carry similarly cheap replacement nudies - offered as "Nudeline". But in my view Thakker has become greedy in the meantime (see for example, how much they charge for the ATU4040EPs, they bought from Ebay vendor "Wolfsbigbadgarage" for a lot less...), so it would seem about time, that people realise, that Thakker isn't the only good source over here.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Japi Roelofs
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by Japi Roelofs » 10 Jan 2020 21:57

Thanks for posting that link Manfred! Those black diamond styli look promising...

I heard of Mr. Stylus but never visited their website. Too bad they don't specify the stylus shape on their regular replacements. For instance the styli for Philips 400, 401, 412 and 422 are all the same price. One must assume they are all conicals? Sorry for being off-topic here.

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 11 Jan 2020 14:36

I’m confused enough already. I’ll leave the choice of a new OEM needle, aftermarket needles or new cartridges for a future discussion. (But thanks for the info.)

I reviewed the manuals & mrow2’s instructions. Also took a close look at the parts diagram.
Looks like a rather daunting task. I’m inclined to set the turntable aside for now.

I looked into the current Thorens & Duals turntables. Looked into US & EU pricing.
In the US, the price increase going from the T190 to the TD240 is bigger than I would have expected.

Dual has two new models: the CS458 , CS465. The CS465 has an Ortofon 2M Red cartridge.
Duals aren’t available in the US. If they were, the CS465 could be priced around where the US TD240 price is.

Am currently considering 3 options: the TD240, a refurbished vintage Dual from somebody that stands behind their work, and a Fluance RT85.

The TD240 is overpriced & I could get a CS465 shipped from Germany for a reasonable price, but I think that’s just asking for unexpected problems.

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by DSJR » 11 Jan 2020 15:25

Dual isn't the same company it was forty years ago.

Being British, I'd recommend you look at a Rega. No auto and all the seriously good engineering is hidden sadly (absolute no 'dressing up' to look posh), but a Planar 3 especially, will take any reasonable cartridge you wish for (AT 91/Rega Carbon up to $1000 models if you really want to push it although a more refined deck should come first). Cheap parts, VERY long lived and quieter through the speakers than a vintage idler or belt Dual.

Just a thought. I come from the 'tune dem' era of listening to music via a turntable - suspending disbelief in the mechanics and these days, more compromised performance of the vinyl medium in general. A Rega 3 can get out of the way to a surprising extent. Nowhere near as 'fun' as a Dual I admit and rather straight-laced in sound for analogue 'romantics,' but I love 'em to bits. I'd probably use a cartridge from the AT VM95 range (VM95ML?) rather than one of their own MM types.

RetiredBob
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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by RetiredBob » 11 Jan 2020 16:17

Rega & Fluance are competitors from opposite sides of the pond. The RT85 is a belt-drive semi-auto TT with acrylic platter & 2M Blue cartridge.

I was thinking about a refurbished direct-drive Dual CS7xx.

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Re: just acquired a CS728Q

Post by dualcan » 11 Jan 2020 16:24

Hi,
This Dual series was still designed under the Steidinger era but with a new design philosophy.
We had a lot of trouble with those two hinge elements (156) the silicon shocks (15) but not so much with the electronics in that era of TT.s. Today, so many years thereafter, dirty contacts however may put a crimp in the (electronic) works.
I have a feeling however that your arm positioning issue lies elsewhere.
Given that you tried the correct eccentrics for these adjustments and still miss height and sideways movement, I venture to guess that the arm received some "ungentle" attention.
These OLM and TKS arms have a very small diameter alu tube. This tube can easily be bent, as I have often seen. The snarky thing about this is that you can't see that bent, as it occurs right at the junction of the tube and the gimbal support (134).
To check this, I usually (and very carefully...) replace the counterweight with any long, proper sized tube (drinking straw?) being careful not to kill the internal sound wires.
If you now look/compare across the arm proper and the "straw", the bent tube should be visible and the two sections won't be in sync.
Regards,
k

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