Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

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JeffMiller
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Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 10 Dec 2019 01:36

My dad was the original owner of this dual 1219 that I'm working on.
I've watched countless videos, read numerous threads and downloaded the Amature Service Manual as well as the official service manual....I'm at a standstill...

Please forgive the lingo as I'm still learning the language of vintage turntables.

Completed / Seemingly Functioning items:
1. Speed Control - dissembled and reassembled - was non-functioning - works smoothly now.
2. Misc. Grease / Gummed up areas - cleaned and re-lubricated - things seem to move as they should.
3. Record size selector - seems functional.
4. Continuity - appears to have continuity from the pickups in the head-shell to the end of new RCA Cables.
5. Automatic Mute Switch - appears to be open and since continuity checks out I think it's good.
6. Cartridge and Stylus appear to be in good condition - appear to seat as it should.
7. Motor and Idler Wheel appear to work correctly and quietly in manual mode (see below).

Problems:
1. When I use the start lever the motor only runs while I have the lever pressed to the start position. If I let go - it stops.
2. When I manually move the arm to the record the motor spins as I think it should but there is no sound. I hear a faint sound coming from what I assume is the needle but nothing from the amp which is a 20 year old Sony amp with a phono input - I tried hooking up the dual to other inputs and no sound from them either.

I've cleaned the various contacts with alcohol - I think I need to try some DeOxit?

Any other suggestions to get this thing playing at least in manual mode?

Is there a way to run the table and check the signal at the output end of the RCA cables to see if there is actually sound there and maybe the tuner is messed up?

Any suggestions to get it working in automatic mode?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hugues TR4
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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by Hugues TR4 » 10 Dec 2019 11:50

Hi Jeff,

Just a couple of things to check:
Problem 1: Have you opened the black box #132 and checked the power switch function? Should be clean and work with a minimum sparkle, if none at all.
Have you disassembled the grooved axle #176, cleaned from old sticky oil and polished on a drill and 1200 grit sand paper? Then put a little chainsaw oil and reassemble. Do not forget to clean the levers #147 and 177 with alcool.

Problem 2: Sound should come through the PHONO input with a MM cartridge.
The contacts both underneath the headshell and on the cart holder should shine like your Grand'mom's silver teapot.
I use silver polish on a Q-tip. Then complete the cleaning with some Deoxit.
There should be continuity between these contacts and the RCA plugs. Test with a multi meter.
Hope this will help.
Cheers,

Hugh

JeffMiller
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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 10 Dec 2019 15:10

Hugh

Thanks for the suggestions - I'm making notes to check all of this...

Jeff

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Need help with DUAL CS 506 platter release

Post by sc0oT » 10 Dec 2019 17:15

I've read through the dialog between Dasher and Griddle asking them....."did you ever get the platter off by loosening the factory sliding screw?" I have a DUAL CS 506 with same issue. It does not release the platter.

I'm posting to you as it seems you are monitoring the DUAL site?

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by DSJR » 10 Dec 2019 18:37

I have to mention it as not mentioned above - apologies if this has been done adjacent to your main issues...

Pimpel?

Also the rubber sleeve that holds two balls on the two-position arm height adjuster? Dearing rings get broken if this height adjuster is moved before the rubber sleeve is replaced.

mrow2 here can help with these parts plus the original grease type so you don't mix different types with disastrous chemical reactions which can happen.

Don't forget the Dualcan stripdowns on his site (dualcan.tumblr.com). he's busy elsewhere with other jobs right now, but still working behind the scenes on motor bearings and so on, which some older Dual motors need.

Good luck and take it gently. Your deck is pushing fifty years old now and practically all of it now is dried lubricants preventing parts from latching.

JeffMiller
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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 10 Dec 2019 18:57

I need to check the Pimpel - it may be damaged or missing.

The single / multi switch isn't working and is on my list to replace the sleeve.

Thanks for the Dearing site - I hadn't found that one...

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by mikepick » 10 Dec 2019 21:53

When you checked continuity from the headshell, did you test from the cartridge sled leads? The little pins on the sled are sometimes grimy, or the little leads may be broken.

If the motor latches when you lift the arm and start it manually, then I would think it would stick automatically as well. The cam should hold the long lever on the grooved axle open in order to keep the motor running as it turns.

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by mrow2 » 11 Dec 2019 06:35

Contact me if you want to do the pimpel and the 2-position arm height adjust ring. My 1219 kit also includes a Service PDF which receives good commentary. If you are confident you've properly serviced the round motor (The sintered bearings in the motor must be properly cleaned and reassembled as per instruction) then the 1249 kit will work for the 1219 instead. The guide gives extensive help regarding cartridge signal testing and repair. The main pivot also is something which is commonly overlooked. Don

JeffMiller
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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 11 Dec 2019 21:28

I'm working through all of these great suggestions - I was watching some videos and one thing that I noticed is that when I push the lever to "start" it doesn't stay there - it goes back to the neutral position. Any advice on what part may be causing this?

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by mikepick » 11 Dec 2019 23:23

That's a good clue. I wonder if it might be to do with the start bracket (204) shown in dualcan's photo:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aez1qcertnv8 ... 19+033.JPG

When you activate the lever the start switch slides forward and this should lock into place, holding the main lever open to keep the motor running, if I remember right.

Edit: there is also a pin in the start lever which inserts in a u-shaped cutaway in the Start lever (177), perhaps that isn't moving properly either.

If you have the table up on say, 4 cans of beans, you can use a mirror to watch the mechanism as you activate the switch.

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 12 Dec 2019 14:07

Good deduction. That part was actually stuck and wouldn't engage. I cleaned it up and added a dab of lube. It engages now bit sticks so now when I do manual start it doesn't disengage and the player is stuck in an endless restart cycle until I nudge that part. I'll keep working on that.

I still have no sound. I disassembled the cartridge and checked it with my mutitester and it seems good but there's a disconnect somewhere...maybe the mute switch?

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by tep392 » 12 Dec 2019 16:05

The mute switch grounds the signal wires, it doesn't open them. So you will still have continuity while muted. Make sure the mute switch contacts are OPEN when record is playing.

JeffMiller
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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 12 Dec 2019 16:43

So if I have continuity from the headshell all the way to the output end of the RCA cable then the system is muted?

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by tep392 » 12 Dec 2019 16:48

No. The mute switch connects the left signal to the left ground. The right signal to the right ground. You can check if you are muted (switch closed) by checking if you have continuity between the signal and ground wires.

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Re: Need help with Heirloom Dual 1219 - No sound, No Automatic

Post by JeffMiller » 14 Dec 2019 23:02

I've made significant progress.
The current issues are that the music is garbled and weak sounding and distorted.

I suspect the arm isn't balanced properly and I'm having some skating issues. I'm going to re-clean all contacts as well.

Thanks for all of the help - I'll report back so the thread will be complete for anyone looking for future help.

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