Repair - CS 505

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MagikGimp
Wales
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Joined: 22 Nov 2019 20:21

Repair - CS 505

Post by MagikGimp » 22 Nov 2019 23:48

Hello all. I wouldn't say I'm a vinyl junkie at all but I would like to get my parent's old CS 505 going again. It's been sitting broken for years now after a previous attempt at a fix and I've put off doing anything with it simply because I'm not that into playing records as a hobby.

It plays records fine, the problem arises once the tonearm gets to the end of the record and goes into the run-out groove. Once the stylus is there something goes wrong, the mechanism locks and smoke starts wafting from the motor!

I removed a spring which appeared stretched from it which I kept in my wallet for ages until I happened to come across another of the same size to replace it. Now that I've had this new one (also for a few years now!) I can't figure out where it goes. I've attached a few photos for a comparison with a working model if that helps. I don't know if this spring is the cause of the problem or not. Any help with this will of course be greatly appreciated; thank you.
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MagikGimp
Wales
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 Nov 2019 20:21

Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by MagikGimp » 22 Nov 2019 23:49

One more pic.
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josephazannieri
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Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by josephazannieri » 23 Nov 2019 02:05

Yo MagikGimp:

If you follow this link, you will find the service manual for your CS505.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/cs-505.shtml

There should be exploded view pictures there that will show the locations of all the springs. Look an the exploded view pictures and see if there is a place where there should be a spring, and your unit does not have one. You should be able to tell if the missing spring is similar to the one that you have lying around loose. There is a selection of service manuals for many countries, and in all different languages. Just look at the flags. You are from Wales, so I expect that you will find a service manual that is proper for your unit. Probably some UK country.

Should be easy to figure out. And good luck from the old manual reader,

Joe Z.

lini
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Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by lini » 23 Nov 2019 03:24

MG: I'd think, you should have better included the removed and the replacement spring placed on a free area in one of your pics. That might make make it a quite a bit easier to find out, which spring it should be.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Minstrel SE
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Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by Minstrel SE » 24 Nov 2019 15:03

Hi MG.

I know all about the 505 and I will say its a labour of love for someone that loves studying how it works and restoring it to new. In many cases that is just not cost effective now

You say its been broken for a while so what you write is worrying as it ramps up the work and lessens the chance of an easy fix

Its not for everybody and I will tell it as it is because its not a particularly easy turntable to service unless you are well into the challenge or work of doing so. I learnt by stripping four down and nobody could really guide me as I had to see it with my own eyes and study the operation of every part...even the manual is limited in how it can really help.

There are many springs under there and none of them should be removed unless you know precisely what its for.

I would need to know if the arm lifts at the end of the record and the platter switches off. It could be all sorts of things from the microswitch to other fine adjustments. If the motor is old and dry it may well smoke but there is also a power resister under there which burns dust off after storage.

Im not trying to patronise you but I would say that it probably isn't worth your time unless you are really into restoring it. You would be better just buying a Rega planar 2 ( for example) and sitting down and enjoying the records you have.

Your 505 will need a full service now and that would include the motor lubrication. All of these are time consuming jobs and I havent even got to pitch control belts etc. Its complex underneath and it becomes clear with study...that study takes time like a mini hobby. I know its been in the family but time moves on and parts become unavailable.

Have a dabble if you wish but dont break a sweat over it unless you enjoy it
Best wishes with it

DSJR
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Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by DSJR » 24 Nov 2019 18:36

Minstrels post above shows something here and again, I swear my comments aren't patronising here...

To me, the 505 series of decks are incredibly simple, as I cut my turntable 'teeth' on Garrard and BSR autochangers as a ten year old boy in the late 60's and it kind of grew from there. Duals as a breed are rather finer and perhaps more 'delicate' than said cheapo BSR's and Garrard's so a careful hand is needed. The first Dual I worked on mechanically was my 1229 and these together with the 1219 and 1249 siblings really should be the VERY LAST Duals anyone should attempt to service...

The only time I've ever had anything 'nasty' from a Dual is on a couple of trade-in decks we had where a 'ballast' resistor in the motor contact/switch box ran very hot and 'smelly.' I never got to find out what it was (switch cap going short or could it be a motor fault?). I think we made one good deck out of the two and scrapped the other (this was twenty years ago and you could barely give these things away back then as vinyl was totally 'out' and home theatre systems were definitely 'in' where users barely played music at all :( ).

Today, the 505 decks are much more desirable, styli are still available and with some TLC, you can get a very pleasant sound from vinyl played on one.

Can I ask the OP to go over the service manuals as much as possible, locate where the spring should be and then look at 'organdonorparts,' Dualfred and Dualcan's spare parts section to see if originals can be got (the 505-4 is still made - just - and the mech ain't that different I believe) - ASK THEM if you don't find it listed, as long as you have the part number for it. The motor bearings are lightly loaded and you may get away with a drop or two of fine machine oil on the bearings. belts and pitch belt may well be ok (you soon know if the pitch belt is failing as it either snaps or the adjustment knob doesn't grip the teeth on said belt). The drive belt may also be ok as long as it's clean, dry and not slipping.

Sorry for diving in so. Minstrel here has infinitely more experience on stripping and rebuilding this model range than I (they were pretty damned new when I was professionally involved with them and rarely gave any service issues back then).

Good luck. Many spares may well be available apart from the tonearm and early 'half inch' cartridge carriers, although 'printed ones' may now be available. These things run 'almost forever' usually and hold prices well today, so worth studying thoroughly and fixing up if you can..

Minstrel SE
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Re: Repair - CS 505

Post by Minstrel SE » 25 Nov 2019 05:48

Yeah no worries. You are right DSJR in that it is not rocket science under there but the series of springs and levers can be very confusing to a newbie and its not something I can easily help with based on limited information. It is beautifully designed...maybe overdesigned....not all perfect but very good indeed.

Based on what was written I decided to take that line because it does take a bit of study to make the fine adjustments. Springs in wallets and broken for a while are not good signs for an easy job. I couldnt even easily list the spring functions and I have all of them in a parts box. It is like a precision watch under there and I wouldnt say it was particularly easy to fathom out...then again if I can do it ....it just takes the time to study it.

Ive stripped a few for parts but I wouldnt remove springs on my working decks.

The arm, cams and cueing mechanism arent really designed to be taken off. same with the arm lift and cut out mechs. There are only limited areas where anybody but the restoration enthusiast should go. The tolerances of the pitch and motor do wear over time. The motors and other parts are now failing due to the age of the turntable

Im just trying to find out if Magikgimp is ready for whats needed. The problem he has mentioned doesnt usually go wrong with 505s so something more serious seems afoot there. A missing spring may cause the microswitch not to trip off or the arm to raise at the end of the record but I would have to refresh my memory and I dont fancy going underneath at the moment. I would hazzard a guess that the spring attaches to one of the metal cam bars offering a return position there

It can be a combination of problems bearing in mind capacitors are old and cams may have moved out of sync. You start looking at one thing and realise that the pcb board needs renewing and parts lubricated

So Im just saying that I see people wanting to have a casual dabble but restoring a 505 goes much deeper than that. I could spot the problem quite quickly but its another matter guiding people with very limited info to go on.

I wish him all the best with it

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