CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

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ziggadebot
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CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by ziggadebot » 10 Oct 2019 21:51

Hi,

I've bought a CS505-1 off Ebay and when it's arrived there is no cartridge. Instead there are 4 wires attached to a connector hanging from the headshell (see photo)


Is it broken, or will it just clip into a new cartridge? Can anyone advise what type of cartridge I would need?

Many thanks in advance
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mrow2
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by mrow2 » 10 Oct 2019 23:58

You can download the owner manual and service manual from the library section and make some notes, see what is missing. It looks to me like the cartridge holder (on which the cartridge would be mounted) is missing. The little board hanging from the wires is likely the contact board for the holder's spring type signal contacts, and it should slide in toward the back of the headshell (the part with the finger lift) to enable the cartridge to convey the signal to the output cable. It's not very nice for someone to sell one of these without the proper cartridge holder. This part is available but you will need to order it. Probably get a couple of them while you're at it. They are fragile and can break easily, so take care. Most likely DualFred and WilliamThakker have the part, probably some other vendors too. I have not advised on this particular question before, so if someone has better information they can jump in. You might also study the eBay listing and see what is said about the missing cartridge. Does the photo show the holder and cartridge? If so, the seller might owe you either those or a substantial credit.

There is a feature to upload pictures in vinylengine and maybe get them to be oriented correctly. I had to make a screenshot and put it in a photo editor in order to see it upright. I could see it but not flip it 90° in the Windows viewer straight from the link. Regards, Don (mrow2)

DSJR
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by DSJR » 11 Oct 2019 13:02

I believe pattern carriers are now the norm for these as I suspect Dual originals are like rocking-horse teeth and very expensive.

The terminal clock with wires attached should locate in the main headshell but I'm afraid I can't advise further (Minstrel here has had them in bits so hopefully will catch it).

The carrier is frail and best way for me was to push the finger lift back into 'unlocked' position, locate the stud on the front of the carrier into it's socket at the front of the headshell FIRST and then ease the rear of the carrier into position making sure it's centered AND ONLY THEN, gently pulling the finger lift forwards to lock it. there should be minimal resistance if the carrier is positioned centrally but forcing the finger lift forwards agaionst resistance will surely snap the locating/locking lugs off the carrier! I saw first hand the results of this many times and we did a roaring trade in replacement carriers back then. There used to be a fine headless screw which could be screwed in to lock the finger lift and prevent it being pushed back accidentally - the carrier drops straight out if not caught on its way...

Cartridges once you have the carrier? the universal AT VM95E is an evergreen universal cartridge and the arm is kind enough I believe, that the higher models in the VM95 range (EN and ML) could happily be accommodated to some advantage. The gentle balance Grado Prestige models seem to 'sound nice' in this arm (a pal has a Silver in his sample). The original fitment was a version of an Ortofon OM5 or 10 I think but these can sound scrappy and a bit 'loud' in this deck - the OM20 is expensive now in my opinion but smoother I remember.

Minstrel SE
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by Minstrel SE » 13 Oct 2019 11:09

Hi

You have bought the hardest version of the 505 to get cartridges for, This is most often why the 505-1 is much cheaper than the later versions. If it didnt come with a cartridge I have to say to anybody that you shouldnt really buy the 505-1 and put your money into the later versions

The part you have is hopefully attached to all wires and it pushes up into the headshell

You have to study how it all works and fits....again not that straightforward if you are a newbie to the 505-1. Theres a tiny grub screw which may be missing and the hedsheel lift is the latch

You will need the adapter plate or certain versions like the Dual ortofon TKS49. I think you can buy them or something similar from Dualfred who will help you. You can buy a new Ortofon with that sled attached but its not cheap

The adapter plate (Dualfred or ebay) might be the cheapest option but it looks ugly and you still have to add the cost of a cartridge like say a used ADC ....high compliance is suited to that low mass arm

The other option if you are a competent DIYer is to fit a 505-2 arm tube or a 505-3 arm tube where all the wires have cartridge tags....NOT easy and probably not recommended unless you like a challenge.

I have to say if you remain unsure and your 505 was very cheap.............probably best to get a 505-2...your decision

So get back to me if you want any more information
All the best with it
Martin

ziggadebot
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by ziggadebot » 13 Oct 2019 21:51

Thanks Guys for all the information, you sure are a knowledgeable bunch!

I didn't pay a lot for the turntable but like a challenge so will try and bring it back to life. I have zero experience, but hey whats to lose!

For now, I will put this on the back burner, as I found my dads (mine in my teenage years) Pioneer PL-12D in the back of the loft, it looks to be in great condition, so think I'll concentrate my efforts first on getting that setup properly. From the reviews I've read it can be pretty decent once set up. I'll definately get a new cartridge and stylus, probably a question for the Pioneer topic section as to which is best. I found the mr-ives blog on the restoration of his deck, so will follow that.

Again really appreciate the help, when I get the Dual back up and working, I'll be sure to update you all.

Thanks

Steve

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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by Minstrel SE » 15 Oct 2019 14:44

Thats good.

As a final comment I will state again that the 505-1 has to be cheap and include its original cartridge (or a good cartridge with the adapter plate) to be a viable option. Even then Dual 505s will need servicing and TLC.

I was buying them for £10 to £25 with cartridges I could take off like an ADC XLM so it was a no brainer. I was essentially stripping them for spare parts to keep or sell

I dont think the 505-1 is worth much more than that when the 505-2 and 505-3 are available. The wood base and a good lid is the best option to go for.

Dual moved on from the 505-1 for good reason. The headshell design is clever in its own way but not family or newbie friendly. Its even security locked when trying to change the stylus which is silly really as I have seen many of them broken by users in an attempt to do this task.

The main design should have been a very simple stylus change and Dual failed in this regard...be honest........ who wants to remove tiny grub screws with micro screwdrivers??

Its a reasonable starter deck if complete and original but the sm100 motor will need a service and the belt, pitch and speed mechanisms are also not very friendly in terms of servicing.

A keen hobbyist like myself is really going to enjoy it. To anyone else I would say steer clear and buy a later version if the price is reasonably low. Duals are good decks but if people want to plug in and play they would actually be better saving up say £250 and buying a new (preferably minimalist) deck in my opinion.

I love the 505 but Im honest enough to say its not a good used buy for everyone
Best wishes to everyone on the forum
Martin

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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by sbrook » 03 Nov 2019 17:26

I'm sitting here with the related CS506 in front of me with me having had the head apart and am now about to reassemble the arm into the gimble. The heads are very similar.

As noted, there are three different headshells.

The first is a single unit headshell where the cartridge is installed into the headshell itself and wires come out onto the pushon connectors to connect directly to the cartridge.

The second is a single unit headshell ... sort of ... where a P Connector cartridge simply plugs in to the end of the tone arm not requring an adaptor (usually used for Ortofon cartridges) These are fortunately rare!

The third is a headshell with a separate cartridge carrier (aka a "Sled") and this is what you have ... except it appears that you don't have the sled. The cartridge screws onto the sled. You need the sled.

Some people inadvertantly lose the sled when they get a new cartridge. OOPS. Sometimes people inadvertantly get rid of the sled because they believe it is the source of an intermittent connection to that connector you've got coming out of the head, so they retire the turntable and then lose the sled! OOPS again.

Either way you need a sled to fix the cartridge to.

That connector that you have looks like a small printed circuit board with 6 fingers. The two outer ones are NOT used except to locate it into the head. The other 4 are the cartridge connections. The cartridge sled has fixed to it a smaller printed circuit with 4 tracks that press against the fingers in the head when properly located.

Here's the problem. With time those 4 fingers on head bend slightly due to the pressure of the sled connector and maybe enough to lose the connection, especially if you remove the sled and put it back! Also what can happen is that the head connector not only bends but becomes dislodged as yours has and fitting it back and staying properly in place is a pain. I tried a rubbery sort of glue ... worked for a while but not long.

So today, I found one of those slightly spongy double sided tape things from 3M that holds pictures on the wall about 1mm thick. I cut a tiny piece to fit in the head and took the release papers off each side. Put the fingered connector gently into the head, making sure it's pushed all the way back and located under the lips at the back corners and then pushed it down firmly. So, now the fingered connector is pretty well fastened in place AND the spongy material presses the fingers firmly down onto the sled connector!

Tools needed ... tiny flat head screw driver ... and a tiny blade x-acto knife and if you're like me and getting on a bit in years, a lighted magnifier sure helps!

Good luck! First chore ... get a sled!

mrow2
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by mrow2 » 03 Nov 2019 19:20

OK, as long as there is enough 3M "meat" to hold it against gravity, which is a never-ending force. I'm a visual type, so it's hard for me to exactly "see" what you are doing without a couple pics. If the 3M foam tape is old (I learned from experience) it does become weak. But you're just describing the little PCB board at the rear of the headshell being fastened with foam tape, right? Should be fine; if it works it's a good idea. After pressing the PCB in, I would wipe and dry the little contacts with 91% isopropyl or other finger-oil-removing cleaner.

Re: sleds and carriers: some people sell them separately when finding a new home for a turntable and get extra dollars or quid or whatever, in a spiteful act of greed.

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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by sbrook » 03 Nov 2019 19:53

Well, I'm sitting here listening to it right now :-) Hooray!

Yeah it's hard to describe and I wasn't able to take pics. But the idea is to push the headshell 4 fingers back down slightly with the 3M stuff ... it just has to be sticky enough to hold the connector in place while you fit the sled and cartridge. Then it's compressed in place. gently pushing the connector fingers onto the sled.

sbrook
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Re: CS505-1 - help with connectors for cartridge

Post by sbrook » 04 Nov 2019 02:27

I was listening and kept hearing this hollow sound and occasional skip that I just couldn't figure out! After suspecting my rebuild of the gimbal to put the tone arm back, I checked and double checked it ... but the sound persisted.

After a time away, I went back and looked at the cartridge on the record and it hit me like a ton of bricks! There was a reason I put that tiny shim between the front of the cartridge and the sled! The AT cartridge has a huge belly compared to the old Ortofon that was there years ago and it was rubbing on the disk! I remembered the shim had popped out while doing the above job!

So moral of the story ... be careful with cartridges with a fat underbelly! You'll need to shim them!!

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