Dual 1015F - help with part identification

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billskinner2
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Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 20 Sep 2019 17:04

Hello all, I'm Bill, Northeast of Scotland.
This will be my first post on this forum as I usually find the answer to any queries I have just by doing a search.
I recently acquired a Dual 1015F. It of course needs a complete service and in the course of doing so I was removing the structure for supporting the platter / spindle to get access to the bearing to clean and lubricate it when I heard something drop. It turns out to be a small ring / washer I think of brass - it has an OD of about 6mm an an ID of 4mm.
For the life of me I cannot seem to locate it on the exploded diagram in the service manual. Here's a quick pic of it.

https://i.imgur.com/GFisCBw.jpg

Appreciate any help identifying the part.
thanks
Bill

mrow2
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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by mrow2 » 20 Sep 2019 19:45

It's a longshot but you could study this group of photos from Dualcan's public site (magnified in a viewer) to see if you can spot the part or the sequence. Material doesn't look brass-like to me but it's a bit blurry to be sure. It seems that you cannot magnify the Dropbox pics in browser very well, but maybe you could download certain ones and study in a photo editor like PSE that way, sharpen them, etc. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9yoh81amkl8u ... 2T69a?dl=0

You could also look at the pics from the 1009 and 1009SK2 assortments as I think a lot of the designs are the same or similar. But spotting it in these pics may even be possible, I don't know.

billskinner2
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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 20 Sep 2019 20:17

Hi. Thanks for the suggestion. I had a quick look at these pictures but nothing jumps out immediately. I will put the 1015 back together after servicing the motor and platter bearing and see if I have an "ah-ha" moment when it seems like it's not going back together properly.
Thanks again for the suggestion.
Bill

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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 20 Sep 2019 22:38

Hi, well I think I figured it out. The bracket which holds the main bearing and spindle is mounted by 2 bolts through the top plate. I just noticed one of these holes that takes these bolts is larger than the other and lo and behold the larger hole is an exact fit for that little washer / ring. It is not shown on the exploded view diagram. I suppose its to get bolt exactly central in the hole for alignment purposes. That's why I heard it drop when removing the main bearing bracket.
Anyway thanks for your help and hopefully I will get this old thing singing again.
Bill

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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by mrow2 » 21 Sep 2019 18:44

OK, that is great news, thanks for the report... maybe this can help someone else as well.

billskinner2
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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 25 Sep 2019 17:37

Hello again, Well I got the 1015F up and running.
I followed the recommended servicing guidelines found on this forum.
I opened the motor and serviced it, oiling with sewing macine oil. It seems pretty quiet now.
I dressed the rim of the idler wheel and cleaned up the speed rotor. The edge of the idler is good now, being uniform, but unfortunately the idler rubber itself is slightly warped at one point in its circumference. I think the deck had been lying in the start position for years in a cupboard or loft and the idler was up against the rotor for all this time, hence the slight deformity. This causes a slight bump heard through the speakers at each idler revolution as the idler rim rides slightly higher and then comes back down on the rotor. Any advice on getting the idler back to true at that point in its circumference?

The main platter bearing was stripped down and cleaned, the washers inside were polished up and then it was all reassembled with chainsaw oil as a lubricant. It is now a lot quieter than before.

The main noise I am still getting, noticable in the lead in and out grooves, apart from the slight thump from the idler, is from the platter bearing sleeve. I see a fair bit of scoring on the bearing sleeve both in the vertical and horizontal direction of the sleeve. Is there anything I could do to remedy this? I tied to polish the scoring out with a little metal polish and a piece of wood dowel with some cotton wrapped about it with some success but I'm unsure how far I can go without taking the inner diameter too far out of spec. At the moment I have the platter sleeve running with some light grease instead of oil and that has quitened it a bit. Any advice?

Another issue I found was that the horizontal tonearm bearings are not as free as they should be according to the test where you balance the arm then put 0.5gram antiskate on and the tonearm should return to the rest from the centre. It doesn't do that at 0.5, it needs about 2 grammes. How easy is it to get into that tonearm horizontal bearings? What type of lubrication do they require?

The deck sounds pretty good for something from the 1960s. The sleeve and idler noise is not really noticeable while rock music is playing - I think it would be if your taste was solo piano though. Its speed is steady and all the mechanics operate as they should. The auto functions are all ok.

I acquired it to service, pretty it up and then sell on but I'm now thinking that if I can get a hold of a AW2 stacking spindle (it did not have one when I got it) I may just keep it as a means of playing a stack of singles - playlists 1960s style! I have tried a couple of cartridges on it a Shure M95ED (VTF 1.5) which sounded good and also the cartridge it came with with, a Pickering 308. I sourced a new stylus for the Pickering which tracks a lot higher at 3.5 gram and though I cannot load the cartridge correctly ( its really needs a 100kohm load), its a blast. It has a very high output, a lot higher than the Shure, and its not as detailed or extended, but its got such drive and a lot of fun for playing old beat up rock singles.

I'm sure you can tell that I'm pretty pleased with the deck and I would just like to thank all the people who contributed to this forum with manuals and photos etc without which I would not have attempted to service this beast.

Cheers,
Bill

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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by mrow2 » 26 Sep 2019 20:24

Re: tonearm bearings, you can visualize that they might attract microscopic bits of dust and dirt over the years. I would be interested in what others say but it's hard for me to advise adding any lubricant to a small bearing race without some effort at cleaning it first. Maybe simply using an air-duster at each bearing to clear out what's loose. Or, a contact type of cleaner (one which will not harm painted surfaces), fine cloth protecting the area all around it, a quick spritz to wash out any debris, then wipe it clean, allow more than enough time for drying and try first without any added lubricant. I have used an air duster, but have not tried the cleaning procedure. Just dabbing them clean with an isopropyl-saturated Q-tip isn't going to cleanse them in my opinion. I'm out on a limb and just floating ideas but it's something I've given thought to, over time. I wonder, does anyone has a tried and true method?

billskinner2
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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 26 Sep 2019 20:57

I was actually thinking of just taking the tonearm off and opening up the bearings at either end of the tonearm post and just examining them and giving them a good clean. I just wasn't sure what type of lube if any they require. Both cartridges I have tried have tracked ok clearing the 3rd hifi news torture track so it doesn't seem to be effecting tracking that much. I'm not sure if I can get at the bearings with a cleaning fluid but it's worth a try, thanks for the suggestion.
Cheers

Bill

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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by Hugues TR4 » 26 Sep 2019 21:33

Be very careful not to dislodge the tiny balls! If they come out of their bearing cages, you're good for ordering new ones (Dualfred has them) or crawling though the room with a magnet to try and retrieve them!
Klaus Dualcan advises not to use any lubricant, unless you have trouble in getting the balls back in their cage.
Good luck,
Cheers,

Hugh.

billskinner2
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Re: Dual 1015F - help with part identification

Post by billskinner2 » 26 Sep 2019 21:39

Thanks for the tip Hugh. I will be extra careful if I decide to take things apart.

Cheers
Bill

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