Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

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jcvb555
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Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

Post by jcvb555 » 14 Sep 2019 19:28

I picked ip a 1219 for what I thought was a reasonable price, good cartridge, nice Walnut base, cosmetically very good.Cleaned it up and it plays nice but is slow. Cleaned and lightly sanded idler wheel also used rubber renew on it.
Adjusted drive to max height its really almost on the 45 area, its much higher than recommended. Sanded , cleaned , sanded, cleaned rim of platter still slow even with pitch at max. I cleaned and lubricated speed switch assembly, idler
will not engage drive without the rim in place is this normal? The auto start and stop function even though the steuerpimple is missing, I have one on order from mrow22. Everything is cleaned / degreased / lubricated.
I just noticed that the motor doesn't shut off, the switch is engaging and seems to operate is as it should, I removed switch cover to confirm operation, so I assume the issue is the capicitator inside the switch box. I think I found the correct replacement part in another thread and ordered it. If the capacitor is bad will it slow the motor or should I still be on the look for something else?
Thanks
J

musicmn
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Re: Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

Post by musicmn » 16 Sep 2019 00:41

Hi jcvb555, on the slow speed have you done any service work on the motor ? If not then its time to do so. I have never found any oil in the bearings of any Dual turntable motor I have serviced. No oil or old thick oil in the bearings will cause speed issues. On this Dual forum is a post titled "Dual Service" click on that post and you will find a link to a complete motor service guild. Just follow the instructions and you should have no issue doing the service. Now as for the motor not shutting off 99% of the time it's old grease on the switch lever complete (see top picture). Again on almost every Dual turntable I service I have found this lever either frozen so bad from old grease that I needed to heat the post it's mounted on with a large soldering gun to melt the old grease so it can be removed (green arrow post red arrow lever). Or I have found this lever just frozen enough to cause the motor to not turn off. You need to remove this lever and clean the post it's mounted on and inside the bore in the lever. Then use fresh grease on the post and the bore as you assemble it. I know you stated that you cleaned everything and put new grease on the moving parts. But did you disassemble the entire mechanism and clean everything then put new grease in. My explanation of cleaning and re greasing is different from other people. I remove all moving parts of the mechanism so they can be cleaned of old grease. This includes the tonearm on this model (1219) and the 1229 because there are additional parts located under the beauty plate under the tonearm that must be cleaned and lubricated with fresh grease (see bottom picture). These parts are vital to the single play/multi play function and if not cleaned you could end up with tracking issues or broken "ears" on the Dearing Ring. I have never replaced any caps on any Dual idler wheel drive turntable as I have never found them to be bad. But on Dual belt drive turntables it's a different story all the caps need to be replaced because you can physically see the cracks in the outer housing of the caps. I hope something here helps. (disregard the yellow arrow in my picture it is from another post)
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jcvb555
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Re: Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

Post by jcvb555 » 16 Sep 2019 12:56

Thanks musicmn, I removed the black cover from the switch assembly and can see the contact physically move
from point to point and the motor continues to run so unless I'm missing something its got to be a bad cap or there's
a short somewhere in the switch such that power continues to be supplied. The cap looks fine FWIW.
I will definitely do as you suggest on the motor tear down, it looks a little involved but I'll just go slow.
The platter spins for a long time after shut off and I think I was kidding myself into believing it that meant there wasn't
a motor issue regards lubrication but what you say certainly makes sense given the age of this machine.
I'll post how I make out and thanks again for the pointers.
J

tep392
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Re: Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

Post by tep392 » 16 Sep 2019 16:43

Does this pivot point rotate freely? If the grease here hardens, it won't let the idler wheel move firmly against the motor and rim, allowing the wheel to slip.
pivot.jpg
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Hugues TR4
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Re: Dual 1219 Speed / motor issue

Post by Hugues TR4 » 16 Sep 2019 21:59

I'm presently working on a 1219, doing a complete overhaul and just finished this very job.
I would take the pain to remove the "grooved axle" (as per musicmn's green arrow) and polish it by spinning it against 1200 grit sandpaper with a hand drill, after a good isopropyl alcool cleaning. Do unscrew the counter nut first (on top of the chassis) and it will come out easily.
Take some pics for the reassembling afterwards (beware of the spring underneath!)
Then you smear it with a bit of Alvania/gadus or even with some sticky chain oil and that should solve the shut off problem completely. This axle is of paramount importance for the functioning of the automatic features.
Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh

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