Newbie introductory questions

twice the fun
Post Reply
Dual Wielding
junior member
junior member
Australia
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 May 2019 13:33

Newbie introductory questions

Post by Dual Wielding » 27 May 2019 13:56

Hi experts

I have a 1229 that I bought off ebay. I'm totally new at this but I have been delving into the intricacies of this turntable the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit. I also have a long way to go.

My 1229 seems to be in relatively good condition. I've looked at it underneath and it's clean, undamaged and everything seem to move freely. There are some problems though, mainly with the auto start/stop.

I'll will probably post more specific questions in other threads later on. There are a couple of things I want to ask first. If I capture some videos of my 1229 working and upload it to youtube, are people here happy to check them out or is that asking too much of your time?

The tone-arm on my 1229 doesn't move properly when using the automatic start/stop and is inconsistent. Sometimes in moves into the correct position, sometimes it stops near the end of the rest. It never completely returns home from the innermost return point, it will sometimes return when I hit stop before that point.

I've found that the steuerpimpel underneath is very worn, I've ordered some replacement from a guy in Germany. For the time being I took the pimpel from the top and put in underneath, for testing purposes. It's really hard to see underneath the main arm but from what I've glimpsed, the friction pad looks like it may have been scratched by someone, it has what look lots of tiny scratches like from a small screwdriver. It's really hard to see in there so I'm not sure if I'm seeing correctly. Also I have a theory that this friction pad may be uneven, I THINK I see areas where it is worn down more where the steuerpimpel often stops moving.

As a broad question, how many components in this 1229 have very specific tolerances?
Like, parts that will only work within very specific limits of force of friction?
One of my fears is that I'm tinkering with things that are engineered way beyond my ability to sense and diagnose problems.

I hope you don't mind the long first post. There is much that I want to know. While I am very reluctant to completely disassemble this turntable, I will do it if that's what it takes.

musicmn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2473
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 22:05
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by musicmn » 27 May 2019 16:39

Hi, first thing down load the owners and service manuals for this turntable from the library on this site. The service manual will give you all the tolerances you need and where to measure them. There is also a great exploded view of the mechanism in the service manual which will help with any disassembly and assembly. I have and still do work on a lot of Dual turntables especially the 1219 and 1229 models. And from my own experience to get these two models working correctly you will need to disassemble the mechanism and clean off all old grease. Then use fresh grease on the parts as you assemble it. There are even parts under the tonearm for the single play / multi play feature that should be cleaned and lubricated. But this requires removing the tonearm and I do not recommend this for and inexperienced person. What ever you do DO NOT FORCE the single play / multi play lever up on the right side of the tonearm. There is a rubber O ring used for this function to work correctly and this O ring can and does turn hard. If you force the lever to move you can do very bad damage to the EARS in the dearing ring which is part of the tonearms gimble. There is a repair for these "ears" but it is very intensive so hopefully you won't have to go there. A member of this site named Dualcan has his own web page for all things Dual. He has a very good tutorial on how to properly service a 1229 and other models so check out his site www.dualcan.com. Another area that is very important and needs servicing is the motor. The motor will need to be split and the bottom bearing should be disassembled, everything cleaned with alcohol and then assembled and new sewing machine oil installed. I have never worked on any Dual turntable that has had any oil left in the motor bearings at this time. As far as the steuerpimple is concerned the upper pimple will not work in the mechanism. It's a little to hard and will most likely slip causing the problems you describe. The main lift lever that pushes on the lower steuerpimlpe has a sanded area on the flat part to give it more grip to move the tonearm into and out of play. If someone scratched up this area. It was most likely done because the steuerpimple was worn out and they did not understand or care about how the mechanism works. If you cannot sand out the scratches to make the flat area on the lift lever more even you may have to buy a new one to make the tonearm function work correctly. But i would wait for the new steuerpimple to show up. Another thing you should do is to read as many post in this forum as you can to get a better ideal on how this mechanism works. There are plenty to read on this forum believe me. I hope something here helps.

lenjack
long player
long player
Posts: 2184
Joined: 23 Jun 2017 02:11
Location: Liverpool,PA

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by lenjack » 27 May 2019 16:41

Also, welcome. You'll be glad you joined. :)

mrow2
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 3435
Joined: 25 Aug 2010 03:05
Location: San Clemente, California

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by mrow2 » 27 May 2019 17:56

Hi Read more, tinker less. As Musicmn suggests a lot can go wrong if you don't know cause-and-effect. 30 min of reading the 1219 and 1229 restoration tutorials will make you smarter with this; BTW it's about the most complex Dual made, or right up there depending upon how it is judged. It is totally dependent upon the lubes working as they should, and the steuerpimpel too. Removing the upper steuerpimpel was a mistake, already there has been upset in the tonearm bearing structure but if you've got it back together that's good. It is real easy to make mistakes with this model. I do have a guide (PDF form) which is available and which covers a tremendous amount of ground on these. Cheers, Don (mrow22)

PS In terms of an exact number I doubt if anyone knows the exact answer to your last question; it's not really relevant. It's mostly within spec until it gets tinkered with so much that it is not. The plate with the scratches is "main lever" and those should be removed and replaced with even strokes of something like a 220 grit or 300 grit emery paper at a diagonal with the direction of the steuerpimpel path, which really covers only a part of that surface.

mrow2
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 3435
Joined: 25 Aug 2010 03:05
Location: San Clemente, California

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by mrow2 » 27 May 2019 20:21

Also -- Another way to "get up to speed" is to review most of the 1229 posts from the past year and see what the common issues are, besides what Musicmn mentioned (and that single/multi washer - very important) and gain some background info. You are limited on the number of searches each day, so phrase them carefully but once you have a return with lots of hits you can stop searching and study the conversations. The main issues normally would have to do with cleaning the hardened grease (especially from hard-to-reach places), refreshing the lubes correctly and the steuerpimpel and lift ring replacements, and if it's not fouled up then I'd hold off on any adjusting for a bit until you understand the cause and effect. PS again...I've just heard from someone in Oz, if it is you then be sure to send your email; it was not in the detail. -- Cheers again, Don

Dual Wielding
junior member
junior member
Australia
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 May 2019 13:33

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by Dual Wielding » 28 May 2019 12:33

I have placed an order on ebay for mrow22's pdf guide.

Yes I am the same person that contacted you. I tried a little trick to send you my email through ebay messaging, I think it managed to work. If not, can I PM you on this site to send you my email?

Does the pdf guide have step by step pictures of how to disassemble and reassemble the various mechanisms on this turntable, with all the little parts and steps involved?
Or better yet, has anyone made a video which shows how to take it apart?

It looks like the ideal thing for me to do is take apart the tone arm and separate ALL the small parts above and below, clean them, inspect them, re-lube everything and put it back together.

I have wiped all the old yellow grease off of the main cam and re-lubed it with lithium grease. I have also taken apart the motor and oiled the bearings but, as has been recommended to me, I need to take apart the bottom bearing and do some work on it.

I uploaded this video to youtube to show the steuerpimpel and main arm going through the start/stop routines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzGwD8atFyY

mrow2
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 3435
Joined: 25 Aug 2010 03:05
Location: San Clemente, California

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by mrow2 » 28 May 2019 17:29

Hi Hard to believe eBay won't allow you to send an email address via ebay messaging after the transaction, as they always have done so in the past. Yes, send me a personal message here by all means, so I can get the PDF to you. I'll take a stab at the trick message and see if it works, pretty vague! Meanwhile It's always possible to include an email address in the "message to seller" section during the transaction and I post reminders for it all over the listing. The PDF covers a lot of different situations as re: servicing sections and challenging parts, for a lot of models. The downloadable 1219 / 1229 guide at vinylengine tackles this step by step. I don't think full disassembly is right however, for someone new at the game. It's certainly possible to service it area-by-area after you read up on the issues. Cheers, Don

Dual Wielding
junior member
junior member
Australia
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 May 2019 13:33

Re: Newbie introductory questions

Post by Dual Wielding » 01 Jun 2019 05:03

Hi Guys

After figuring how to take off the main lever, on inspection I think I have found a likely culprit for why the tone arm isn't moving properly.

Have a look here at the friction plate .. https://imgur.com/a/ASqqqtA

It looks like a previous owner has attempted to rough up the plate, quite likely for the same problem that I am currently trying to fix. I think that they've gone way overboard and have excessively scratched the plate, probably using a power tool of some kind. To the naked eye there seems to be very subtle pits with varying depths. I couldn't capture it in with my camera but it's a little more evident to the naked eye. The image with the red outline is my attempt to put a border around all the pitted spots. You can sort of see various series of scratches which look like individual passed made with the tool. Each pass, I think, has a slightly different depth to it. This seems to be a likely reason for the steuerpimpel to start and stop moving.

I'm assuming I'll have to get some sandpaper or a dremel and try to make everything flatter, correct?

Or would putting grease on the plate possibly even things out?

Or is this plate too damaged and needs to be replaced?

Post Reply