Dual definitely still making turntables

twice the fun
lbls1
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by lbls1 » 21 May 2019 02:01

I am glad that Dual is still around. It seems that they are less available than 35 years ago. I would also assume that the prices are astronomical. I have a soft spot for them, as I've admired their crafts for at least 35 years if not longer.

Hugues TR4
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by Hugues TR4 » 21 May 2019 20:49

Fortunately, there are still many older Dual's around, and still for affordable prizes, that are equal if not superior in quality and performances to many contemporary production turntables.
Personally, I wouldn't give my fully repaired and serviced 1219('s) away for any "modern", full of unreliable electronics, hyper expensive gear!
My opinion…
Cheers,

Hugh.

Minstrel SE
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by Minstrel SE » 22 May 2019 15:12

lini wrote:
17 May 2019 16:16

Also forgot to comment on that: Oh, well, Martin, according to Dualfred and Noko, the 505-4 will be discontinued anyway - iirc, due to worn-out production tools, but also due to difficulties with sourcing parts for the SM100-1 motor.

And who would really want to buy a current 505-4, anyway? Compared to the initial version it not only lost the heavier platter variant (with lead ring), the good rubber mat and the ULM68E/OM(B)20, but a few years ago also the easily swappable headshell - and in the meantime Fehrenbacher apparently even ran out of the original inner gimbal frame of the 3rd gen. ULM arm, so that they now use the different looking version from the low-profile variant of the 3rd gen. ULM arm instead. So buying a new 505-4 has become rather unattractive, as one would pay way more for quite a bit less and hence be quite dumb to not buy a used 505-2 (DeLuxe), 505-3 or early (or at least earlier) 505-4 instead.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Oh yes dont get me wrong Manfred. I love to see Dual producing turntables and I love German engineering.

I have a long history of thinking about the 505. Its beautifully engineered and a joy to behold how its all put together under there. It was a perfect price point at the time with a lot of convenience built in.

It made the BSR decks, music centres and the cheaper plastic Japanese DD decks look inferior. There were a lot of decks on radiograms that were garbage and Dual woke up the UK market to some real value

I often wondered why they didnt take on the minimalists directly as thats the way the market seemed to be going. I dont understand the costs of change or tooling up. In my way of thinking they could have looked at the Rega and made something even better :)

I like to think that Dual could now put its name on a minimalist deck that means business.I dont know much about the new range CS600?? The 400 series seem reasonable but there is something missing which screams audiophile. There may be some hype in this sector and I would like to see head to head tests

Why cant they release something at a RP1 price point that takes it head on?

Best wishes to everyone on the forum
Martin

Solist
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by Solist » 24 May 2019 10:55

Dual was stubborn in regard to make semi-automatic, automatic turntables. I have seen a vintage flyer saying something like: its not hard to make a good manual turntable, to make a good automatic is another story.

Wasnt the 505 considered to be on pair with the rega rp1 (or rp3) turntables back in the days?

In regard to the price point, it mostly depends how well you have the manufacturing process thought out. When the 1019 hit the market, they could make it affordable, since they already had parts made for the other 10xx turntables. The mechanics were the same, but you got a better motor, platter, tonearm, and cast decor instead of plastic. Thats how it was possible to make a turntable with approx 700 parts for about 1100€ in todays money.

Same goes today with rega turntables. I guess they have their manufacturing process figured out, and since they sell a lot of turntables they can afford to sell it for less money compared to other smaller manufacturers.

banerjba
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by banerjba » 25 May 2019 05:05

The Dual 505-2 was the first rung on the hifi turntable ladder in the 1980s. Next was the Rega 2/3, Revolver or Systemdek level followed by the Linn, Roksan level. That is path I followed as I read a lot of UK hifi mags back then and Canada has always been a good market for UK hifi.

I have switched the entire fleet to more modern designs: Pro-ject, Elipson and Clearaudio but still own a couple of Duals as well as a few big Japanese tables.

The Dual had this nice big soundstage and the OM10 cartridge that mine came with provided a big lush sound. The Dual also did not have the speed/pitch issues that some earlier Rega tables had. I still have my lovely 1228. More than 40 years old and still going strong.

mrow2
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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by mrow2 » 05 Jun 2019 20:10

Still a bloody rumble-box, whoever makes it
he he he..... too cruel!! We be kind!

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Re: Dual definitely still making turntables

Post by sotpal » 15 Jun 2019 06:46

Back in 1982 my dad bought for his sons this turntable:

http://dual-reference.info/tables/CS505-1.htm

It was the cheapest and the absolute entry level turntable of the dual cs series of that time. I've grown up with that table, endless hours of listening to the music. I had even upgraded its standard spherical stylus after a couple of years usage with a nude elliptical stylus.
It was an ok turntable but nothing to write home about... I could just not afford anything pricier at that time and i was grateful to my patents they even made the effort to buy that for me.

The deck was so spartanic and odd build in that it had a strobe ring around the platter but no bulb to make it readable... Go figure.

I really don't understand why people believe in 2019 its 4th incarnation is something really exceptional (including hifi magazine reviews).

To me it sounds really weird in the absence of the 70s - 80s original Dual company remarkable technology to overestimate what is left of it.

I have no proof for that, but my impression about the current Dual company is that they continued to produce 505 just because it's the only one turntable of the original Dual era they can afford to produce. That doesn't make it a good turntable alone.

I can't believe the blueprints of 721 or 728q or 741q are gone. I can't believe today's technology does not make it easier and faster to build a 731q.

They simply do not want to spend the money to do it because the market is limited compared to what it was in the 70s and 80s...

Just my thoughts...