Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

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stanleyf61
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Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by stanleyf61 » 19 Apr 2019 17:01

Hi,

Working to adjust the tonearm height and movement after refurbishing the turntable.

Background:
When i first picked up the table, it seemed like the 41/42 (tonearm head complete/contact plate complete) seemed to be pointing downward. So i immediately thought the front portion of the tonearm may be bent at the front. Even though i could not easily discern a bent tonearm, I totally disassembled it, as described in other posts, and "straightened it". I reassembled, and really don't see any improvement. Two thoughts come to mind, either i did not "straighten it" enough or the problem is elsewhere?

Questions:
- What i am wondering if 41/42 is "bent" or "out of shape" instead of the front of the tonearm being bent?
- What is the typical measurement from the chassis to the top of part 42? see below.
- I can see that the tonearm shaft does not complete make contact with 42. Lacks about 1mm. But i have loosed the screw that holds it and even when i lift it up manually to make full contact, it does not make much difference at the front of 42. So not sure if this is the problem? Does this mean that the front lower portion of the tonearm is still bent?

Support:
I have posted some pics in which i am showing the tonearm after it was reassembled. I have compared some measurements. On the table i am working on it is only 44.5mm from the chassis to the top of the 42. On another 1229Q table that i have that works perfectly it is 48mm (while sitting on 66, rest complete).

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Attachments
IMG_9082.JPG
full pic of 42 and surrounding components
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IMG_9072.JPG
closeup of 42 and surrounding components
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IMG_9071.JPG
1mm gap between 42 and tonearm shaft
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IMG_9068.JPG
42 in rest at 45mm
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Percivilla
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by Percivilla » 21 Apr 2019 21:09

Interesting. The whole tonearm/headshell assembly on my 1229q slants a bit downward from the Gimbal as well. I simply added a 3mm platter mat and all is well. My q seems to be "voiced" with more treble emphasis than my other tables, and the VTA wasn't helping. The addition of a platter mat and a Shure M91 balanced things out nicely.

I don't have the arm to headshell gap like yours though.

If my machinists ruler turns up I'll take some measurements.

stanleyf61
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by stanleyf61 » 22 Apr 2019 18:57

Hi Percivila

Thanks for the info!

The challenge i am having is since the tonearm headshell complete seems to be slightly low, it is not possible to adjust the tonearm so that all the vertical and horizontal movements work correctly. For example, if i lift the tonearm up using either 200 (position sleeve/barrel) or 218 (adjusting screw) up to the correct height above the playing surface, then the autoplay function does not work correctly. Just don't want to take it back apart again until i have confirmed that the tonearm is actually bent or something else could be wrong? Only other idea is that am not using the proper sequence to adjust the tonearm? Here is process that used based on another post at this link (viewtopic.php?t=103756)

Step 1: Adjust Tonearm
1. unplug turntable
2. totally take cue lever out of play by turning 218 counterclockwise until lowest point is reached
3. activate start function/button
4. turn platter clockwise until tonearm is lifted to highest vertical position
5. adjust 200 as needed to position it level with tonearm rest (fig 15 in service manual)
6. adjust 56 to limit movement to .5mm (fig 15)
7. complete start cycle manually
8. Test manually and fine tune as needed.

Once that adjustment is finished then adjust cue lever by
Step 2: Adjust Cue
1. turning 218 clockwise until tonearm starts to raise from rest position
2. move carefully tonearm over platter and adjust height (fig 17)
3. Test manually and fine tune as needed
4. Return to rest position

If all goes well everything should work!?

Challenge has been autostart works until i adjust the cue, then autostart does not work. It think it because i have to turn 218 more than it should be to raise the cue to proper height.

Thanks, Stan

stanleyf61
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by stanleyf61 » 26 Apr 2019 03:27

Hi,

Just wondering if the process for adjusting the tonearm is correct?

Also posted a pic of the height of the tonearm (part 41/42) using standard measurement 1 3/4''. Is that low or seem correct?

thanks, stan
Attachments
IMG_9146.JPG
45 mm or 1 3/4 inches
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Alec124c41
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by Alec124c41 » 26 Apr 2019 05:50

These turntables were designed to lay a stack of records, so the arm should be level with 3 records on the platter.
Dual did make some with adjustment for single play, but not the early ones, AFAIK.
In order to get a cartridge properly leveled for single play, I put a short piece of bell wire between the back of the cartridge and the carrier, which corrected the angle.

Cheers,
Alec

stanleyf61
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by stanleyf61 » 22 May 2019 04:24

Hi Alec,

thanks for the info! i will use to check adjustment. i am still working on this table. I removed the tonearm again and "re-straighten" the shaft. i am not sure it really helped. I did find a spring that was bent on the speed knob that also affects the tension on the start function. I will fix that and retest to see if that helps the issue that is occurring.

Stan

Tinkaroo
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by Tinkaroo » 22 May 2019 10:03

I measured my 1229Q at 1/16" higher than the 1-3/4" you show in your last photo.

stanleyf61
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Re: Dual 1229Q - New slant on common problem?

Post by stanleyf61 » 24 May 2019 05:33

Well still having an issue. I think i am getting closer :)

The current problem is that when i press start the tonearm lifts and moves to the record and then drops as it should but then it lifts and returns back to the rest position and sometimes it also repeats this incorrect cycle several times before cutting off.

I have adjusted the cue lift and tone arm lift heights as described in the 1229q manual (e.g. fig 13, 15 and 16). While i was doing that I had two other related problems along the way in which sometimes the tonearm would drop and then move forward slightly (when it did this it did not return as described above) and sometimes the tonearm would drop to the record and jump backward toward the rest bar. So since i had removed the tonearm as part of previous repairs I also adjusted 62 as described on Page 9 (remedy e) to assure that the vertical bearing and horizontal bearing was adjusted correctly.

The other two items that i worked on and i think i have resolved were replacing the speed selector assembly with a cleaned and lubed assembly that included replacing the bent spring mentioned in my last post. In addition, with regard to straightening the tonearm, i was able to further straighten the tip of the shaft such that it raised the height raised from 45 mm to 47.5 mm.

Open to ideas on what to do next!

thanks, stan
Attachments
IMG_9634.JPG
pic of bent spring that was placing too much tension on related parts
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IMG_9646.JPG
height now 1 7/8 inches
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IMG_9647.JPG
height now 47.5 mm
(49.05 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

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