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Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 15:20
by Iloveali
Hello all, was advised to bring this qustion here, i finally got my sled for my dual 510 and with a quick setup it already blows my pl15dii and sanyo and technics out of the water. So happy. But i don't have the overhang gauge and cannot find any info on 510's overhang. Manual doesn't say and through the digging I have done I can't find any info. Did find a few that said 8mm but i dont have that confirmed, so if anybody knows, i would be very grateful. Mean time I will continue to look.

Kind reagards

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 16:06
by dualcan
Hi,
The stylus is aligned on the cart sled TK14 or 24 via the gauge.
In lieu of this gauge, here are the actual measurements of the stylus' position, once aligned:
gallery/image/28633
Regards,
k

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 16:24
by Iloveali
Hey thank you!! So, the conversion of 1 1/8 is 43mm right? Not a math wizard ☺

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 17:05
by dualcan
Hi,
Perhaps this will help,
https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm
Cheers,
k

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 17:07
by Tinkaroo
Klaus is a math wizard, but also the Dual wizard!

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 17:25
by Iloveali
Well 43mm was unobtainable. It's 28.5 I belive. Gonna double check with the link above

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 17:41
by Tinkaroo
Iloveali wrote:
26 Jan 2019 17:25
Well 43mm was unobtainable. It's 28.5 I belive. Gonna double check with the link above

Yes 28.5 is correct. =D>

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 26 Jan 2019 20:28
by DSJR
Oh FFS... get a card or similar cartridge alignment protractor, fit the cartridge roughly half way in the carrier slots to start and nip up the fixing screws so you can still gently ease the cartridge slightly forward or back (usually slightly forward in my experience). Align the stylus on the *60mm* from disc centre position (Dual's gauge is nearer 58mm or 59mm when cross checked, but modern convention is 60mm and it's little more than half a mm difference in the carrier anyway). The tonearm length and headshell offset angles are fixed as designed, so no need to do any more than this inner null point before firmly but obviously not excessively tightening the cartridge screws.

Works for me (with all manner of stylus shapes and configurations) and I have both the protractor(s) and Dual gauges to cross-check with. Same applies to my 1019 with earlier shorter tonearm and also the 1214 arm which is also shorter than the 510 and relatives' tonearms.

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 31 Jan 2019 14:19
by Iloveali
I'm trying to go with what dual wanted in the first place.

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 31 Jan 2019 14:21
by Iloveali
Sorry about the blurry shot.
Screenshot_20190131-082016.png
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Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 31 Jan 2019 14:23
by Iloveali
So this state's it goes from manufacturers design. Originally from help previously we came up with 28.5

And here they want 18.9. Might as well be 19. Any who. What do others feel is correct?

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 31 Jan 2019 19:34
by dualcan
As far as factory instructions, the only criteria for alignment of these turntables/arms, was the gauge, as I showed earlier.
The reason the gauge worked with the TK 14 / 24 for both short and long arms, was that the head angle was adjusted among all the arms that utilized the TK 14/24 headshell
Regards,
k

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 31 Jan 2019 20:56
by DSJR
The Dual gauge (I have the later TK one and received an equivalent for the 1019 from a trusted friend here ;)) sets the stylus inner null at between 58 and 60mm from disc centre as I suggested earlier.

I've done it both ways, setting the cartridge via the protractor and checking with the Dual gauge and setting using the gauge and checking/confirming with the card type protractor. This is how Dual set their stylus overhang up and if the plastic gauge isn't around, then use a modern protractor and set to approx 60mm from disc centre - 58mm to 60mm is the tiniest difference in cartridge fore-aft movement, so irrelevant with most cartridges really.

Apologies for the hectoring tone - it's all so easy...

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 01 Feb 2019 14:23
by Iloveali
Thanks to all. Now for the most pedestrian question I have. Please be kind.. I have a shure protractor, how do I set it at 60mm from disc center?? #-o
Do I butt a ruler at spindle and measure 60mm? What way do we want the ruler facing? Determining overhang has been a hardship for me. As I'm a visual learner, or just the most laymen description you can give me. And math and such makes my head hurt, but I want to learn. That's why I liked pioneers so much, 49mm or that overhangchecker. It's time for me to step up tho.. call me stupid if you want, but I just want to learn the right way finally. And all the tutorials I have seen, seem to not jive for me.

Re: Dual 510 overhang measurment

Posted: 01 Feb 2019 14:48
by Iloveali
So i tried this
20190201_084049.jpg
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This mesaures at (inner) 66mm and (outer) 121mm
Baerwald?
The thing that always stumps me, is where is the fixed spot the protractor goes?? I know with a arc protractor, the arc forces you to get the overhang right or it won't follow the arc correctly. But how do I know where the fixed spot for the protractor is...

Wouldn't mind making a arc protractor, but I don't know what the measurements are to create it on the template generator.
And once again, i just want to learn, so if someone notices a oversight in my process, please tell me.
I didn't learn how to play drums guitar and piano and banjo and mandolin overnight.