Too much dust on the needle

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Oliver Elmes
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Too much dust on the needle

Post by Oliver Elmes » 20 Jan 2019 18:13

Hello,

I have a Dual 504 record player. The issue I have is with dust collecting on the stylus much quicker than I'm used to. With some records it's fine but with others, it can't play more than 5 minutes without the stylus being covered in dust and the record being unlistenable. Is it a weight issue on the arm? The needle is apparently fairly new. Most of my records are in pretty good condition and therefore shouldn't have too much surface dust on them and dust cover is always down. I just seem to be forever removing dust off my stylus.

Thanks in advance.

Ollie

themisto462
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by themisto462 » 20 Jan 2019 18:33

Maybe the static charge is higher than usual ... :-k

Have you considered the use of a such a self moving disc cleaner ("dustbug")? I have such a device in use ("autocleanica" AT-6004) and it is astonishing, how much dust it collects from actually clean records. Some of those cleaners are also electrically conductive and can be connected to the turntable ground, what helps to reduce static charge.

Regards.

Oliver Elmes
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by Oliver Elmes » 20 Jan 2019 18:51

I did wonder about the static charge. I didn't realise you could buy those self moving arms separately. They look good and not too expensive. Could be worth investing. Thanks. Ollie

themisto462
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by themisto462 » 20 Jan 2019 19:13

They once were an integral part of the phono accessory market and there were many different designs.

Personally I've tried several of those devices, amongst other things a model which is similar to a "Nostatic Record Cleaning Arm" and an "AEC record cleaner", but I prefer the audio-technica AT-6004, as it gave me the best results. I think it is the combination of a carbon fibre brush and a velvet pad, what makes it so effective.

Oliver Elmes
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by Oliver Elmes » 20 Jan 2019 19:52

Yeah, I also own this Connoisseur record player (https://vimeo.com/137529749) which has one in built... and thinking about it, it just pops off so I could try it out with a bit adjusting. Thanks for giving me the idea!

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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by JDJX » 20 Jan 2019 20:19

Micro dust is everywhere and can not be avoided... unless you live in a "clean room" where the air is constantly 100% filtered.

IMO micro dust is the number one cause of pops and tics in an otherwise pristine looking LP....even with new LPs.

It the winter when the humidity is low, the dust problem is even worse.

So routine dust removal is prudent before playing .. perhaps with a carbon fiber LP brush.

Also, if you have one, a " dust bug" type of thing that that sweeps the LP ahead of the stylus works wonders.
They have the added benefit of helping to channel static out of the LP.

This is about the only one of this type of thing that is still available. :)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antistatic-Rec ... %3D1%26asc

BTW, this is what I use.....
001xyzxxx.jpg
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themisto462
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by themisto462 » 20 Jan 2019 21:08

Oliver Elmes wrote:
20 Jan 2019 19:52
Yeah, I also own this Connoisseur record player (https://vimeo.com/137529749) which has one in built... and thinking about it, it just pops off so I could try it out with a bit adjusting. Thanks for giving me the idea!
Beautiful device and a really great video (very professional =D> )!
JDJX wrote:
20 Jan 2019 20:19
This is about the only one of this type of thing that is still available. :)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antistatic-Rec ... %3D1%26asc
For several years now, the audio-technica AT-6004 is also still available (NOS) from Spain (I think they have a whole ISO-container full of them...).
JDJX wrote:
20 Jan 2019 20:19
BTW, this is what I use.....

001xyzxxx.jpg
Bib Groov-Kleen I guess?
Last edited by themisto462 on 20 Jan 2019 21:11, edited 1 time in total.

Oliver Elmes
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by Oliver Elmes » 20 Jan 2019 21:10

I hadn't considered winter being a factor, another issue is, windows are closed a hell of a lot more. I've pulled the antistatic arm from my other connoisseur record player.... so far so good. I'm also going to order a carbon fibre brush. Thanks!

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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by JDJX » 20 Jan 2019 21:26

Yes, it's a " Bib Groov-Kleen" .
I was lucky enough to get one (for a sane price) a few years ago when I first got back into vinyl .

Back in the '70s I had an original 'Dust Bug" :)

DSJR
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by DSJR » 21 Jan 2019 21:26

I went through all this in the 70's!!

Tracking record cleaners play the record as well, adding noise in the background in the worst cases and adding drag to the drive. The Dust Bug was possibly the first and worst of these, but the Groov-Kleen wasn't as severe if properly balanced. Oh yeah, the sticky pads holding them on are difficult to almost impossible to clean off later on...

I'm surprised the dust pickup is so severe in this case. I usually remove the lid when playing any of my decks and never have had this issue. I use a 'carbon fibre' style brush before playing and this is usually enough. The infamous 'Zerostat' was very popular and used to work well in many circumstances. It's a bit expensive now but I'm coloured by prices of forty years ago...

If the stylus was faulty, chipped or similar, I think it would be clearly audible and also leave carving marks in the groove after playing. ADC XLM styli used to pick up more 'crunge' than Shures for example, but that was never so severe as to ruin playback.

Have the records ever been 'sprayed' with liquids of any kind? Decades ago, there was a spray (Permostat?) that was supposed to improve things, but all it did was leave a layer of goo that the stylus immediately picked up - ugh!

mrow2
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by mrow2 » 22 Jan 2019 01:18

That Permostat (and probably 150 other name variations) was something else. Naturally people looked for something which made impossible claims. It's not hard to tell which stylus units were caked up with the stuff. The worst was this one (this photo was already after a fair bit of time spent scraping it off, and originally the tip was just a ball of sandstone, and just as tough --- I could not see the stylus post for all the "crunge" covering it. It did not play well and I thought the tip was broken. A normal cleaning with a stylus brush and some soapy stylus cleaner was not going to change it in the slightest. ):
Dirty stylus a.jpg
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after gently scraping with a fine razor and a little isopropyl along the way:
Dirty stylus b.jpg
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fscl
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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by fscl » 22 Jan 2019 17:50

If you want a low cost D-I-Y project for experimentation, check out this topic:

viewtopic.php?t=20277&highlight=

Good luck

Fred

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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by DSJR » 22 Jan 2019 18:28

I stand by the AT607 bottle of stylus cleaner. It's safe with expensive moving coil cartridges too and believe me, I saved a couple from trade-in due to solid deposits fouling the diamond. I have a special fairly stiff stylus brush and back to front sweeping in addition to this fluid, helped get the diamond shiny and clean not so different from Don's pics above.

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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by JDJX » 22 Jan 2019 19:22

I like the "Bib Groov-Kleen" better than the original "Dust Bug that I had because of the Dust Bug's hard bristles that did "play the record " to some degree. "Groov Kleen " does not have this issue.

BTW, I agree with and use AT607 stylus cleaner. .
It's great stuff. and is safe for all stili . :)

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Re: Too much dust on the needle

Post by DSJR » 22 Jan 2019 21:49

If you're using such a device on the Thorens in your avatar, you are aware the extra drag on the record may drop the speed too far and also shorten belt life as these belts are very 'stretchy' and do this all too regularly in normal use in my experience.

Just sayin' as a TD160/166 setter-upper for years and a current 160 owner - cough - and I knew these things backwards at one time...

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