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1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 07 Jan 2019 23:48
by Othne3l7
I have a Dual 1229 that needs a new cartridge. What will work best? Not too pricey. I listen to classic rock mostly.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 00:18
by jacrider
On a 1219, I am really enjoying a Shure V15 III. I haven't tried one of the fancier Jico styli yet. I have the original stylus and love it. Bought it used. Haven't found a genre of music it doesn't sound good with. Mind you Led, Who, Stones, etc sound great.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 01:10
by Osibisa1
I rotate a Shure V15 III w/Jico HE, V15 IV HE & MR, and my trusty ADC XLM.

What do you have in there now?

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 04:43
by Othne3l7
Not using the dual currently as the current one sounds not so good. It is a Empire 700t. Cant find anything on it.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 15:34
by Osibisa1
Not familiar with Empire carts, but you can't go wrong with any of the Shure's mentioned.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 17:20
by DualSpinsMyVinyl
I am enjoying several Shure cartridges: V15 III / JICO VN35HE stylus, M75ED T2 with LP Gear N75HE stylus, M95ED / LP Gear N95HE and M97xE / JICO SAS. All are very satisfying. I cycle through using each one because I am unable to say that any single cartridge is my favorite. I think that I would recommend the M75ED T2 with an HE stylus for your listening pleasure. It will do justice to all music jonra.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 20:09
by Othne3l7
Thanks for the suggestions. I will be looking for these online.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 20:20
by DSJR
My own take and knowing modern cartridges increasingly well. The V15 III is a hard toned beast (I have two, one of which is a Dual 'LM' type), even in a Dual 701 which made it sound almost 'sweet.' The M95's were horrible even then - hard, flat perspectives and rather unpleasant all round for music reproduction despite the measurements and good tracking - by then 'we'd all gone over to first, the Stanton 681EEE and then the ADC XLM III series as by then the compliance was more tonearm friendly and the sound gained precision often lacking in earlier versions. the Jico diamonds are very nice I think, so maybe a Jico stylus in a vintage Shure may improve them a bit...

These days, we no longer search for the lowest tracking weight (a total blind alley it was discovered after some research into how a stylus tracks a record groove and forces involved - sorry, I can't link to the paper) and 1.75 to 2g tracking seems ideal with modern cartridges set up to track securely at this downforce (NOT the old models as they'd collapse). The 1229 can go all the way to a grand on a cartridge if you really feel that way inclined and only want to play one record at a time, but to start with, I'd look at an AT VM95-EN or the AT520 or 530, the 500's having better body internals (the AT530 has the same naked diamond of the VM95-EN). Ortofon have the 2M range which can be a bit 'raw' sounding in the very high frequencies on the Red and Blue models (I don't mind it but other more 'analogue' people don't care so much). The 2M Bronze is a firm favourite along with the AT540 (I haven't heard the AT750 yet) and so on and so on...

If you want a more mellow sound, the Sumiko Pearl if still available has an old fashioned 'beefy' tone, I find Grado Prestige models dull but others don't (Black One has a bit of sparkle to ease the boredom - cough) and Nagaoka have some interesting ones, but at (to me) outrageous prices for what used to be very cheap cartridges (the MP110 used to be AT95E price - now double I believe).

Hope this helps. It's my opinion that 'digital' was the best thing that ever happened to vinyl, as we have a proper benchmark to aim for and current half decent cartridges now are more neutral and with less sonic errors than in the 70's - in my opinion and I also had some master recordings on tape to use as well, hence my particular opinions...

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 08 Jan 2019 22:03
by noisefreq
If you're cool with looking for vintage, check out the Pickering XV-15 with JICO or LP Gear stylus.
Same cartridge as the Stanton 681 and styli are interchangeable.

And speaking of interchangeable, Shure has been mentioned but not the veneral M91ed.
It will accept many styli like N70, N72, N74, N75, N91 and N93 variations.

For easy and new, Audio Technica is a solid brand.
AT100, AT120, or the new VM line looks promising. VM520, VM530 or VM670.

As far as the Empire, it looks to be similar to the Empire S2000X.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/EMPS0700T.html

Happy hunting.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 09 Jan 2019 14:11
by DSJR
The M70, M75 and M91 were basically the same thing I think, same body with different shaped mountings and stylus plastic mounting 'shapes' All of these, as per the V15 T2, have a mid hf suckout which some people like over a flat to bright response. Some mid priced Empires had horrible styli (badly ground and rough polish) and this is where maybe a Jico replacement stylus really would be a genuine upgrade. I have a 681EEE in a Dual carrier and it's ok, but rather 'soft' in the bass by today's standards, the upper rolloff too gentle to be an issue here.

As the OP can see, the 1229 itself is no impediment at all to reasonable cartridge choices, although my 701 didn't sound so good with an AT120E on the one hand (tonal characteristics of the cartridge in an upper medium mass arm) or a Goldring 1042 on the other (one note bass, one note mid and spiky one note top which didn't happen in a Rega RB300 arm) :D

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 10 Jan 2019 22:30
by Straker62
I had read many, many times (also in the official Dual brochures) that the Dual 1219/1229 tonearms will be perfectly matched with cartridges having compliance between 20 and 35 cu at 10 hz. Thus imho modern cartridge such as 2m series and AT VM95 - Vm540 / 740 / 760 do not seem to be the best candidate to satisfy from a compliance point of view.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 11 Jan 2019 13:02
by DSJR
Forget that. 10Hz is a so-called ideal figure pulled out of a hat and is more important in very softly sprung decks like a Thorens 150/160 type to mention an International turntable example. Dual arms are stable in all planes, or should be, so you can use an ADC XLM with 50cu quite safely (this one needs arm damping though for best sibilance reproduction), although in extremis, my 701 doesn't like my ADC 26, whatever the playing weight!

The latest AT500 models have increased the recommended downforce from 1.5g to 2g. To maintain their V-magnet and coil alignment, the suspension would have to have been changed (my AT120E tracks well at 1.4g and no, my 701 doesn't care much for this one either in sonic terms, but that's a subjective sonic characteristic of the 120E in the wrong arm - it's fine in a low mass fixed head SME I think). The new AT's are more like the old Linn K9 type, with 1.7g or so tracking and the K9 is fine in Dual 1019 and 12** arms as long as the 1019 and shorter 12** arms are level playing a single record. This is hands-on rather than purely spec-sheet reading and if the main resonance goes down to 7 or 8hz, then no matter - in this situation. The ULM Duals never sounded as good to me, but the fitted cartridges may well do now with modern replacement styli for all I know, and these were 'academically' perfect in this particular respect...

I could go on, but for me, *there's no substitute for actually trying stuff together* and in semi-retirement, it's something I miss. Do please remember that in the UK, the Dual 601 and 721 at least, used to come with Shure V15 IIILM fitted, this a 35cu (minimum) 1g tracker and the last batch of 1229's we had to sell on came often with the M91-ED ready fitted, another highish compliance model liking 1.25g downforce. No stability issues here I promise you.

So, forgive me appearing to ignore industry general guidelines here. I'm speaking from first hand experience with a 1229 back in the day - and mine played host at home to a V15T2, V15 III (I mentioned the 91/75-ED as we used in the store), Stanton 681EEE, ADC XLM II and III. The 701's we sold, often went out with the old much admired AT20SLa and the 721's seemed to mostly come in with the V15 IIILM fitted as well as the Ortofon M20 Super models (I don't think we often had the Dual m20E version). The 600 series decks often had a green-stylus AT derivative I think, but I can't remember the number it had.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 11 Jan 2019 18:55
by noisefreq
I've used all the cartridges DSJR has mentioned (with exception of the V15 II, AT500 series and the Linn K9) and can atest to them being excellent choices compliance wise for the 1229.

But, I'm not a fan of the Ortofon OM20 on the DUAL, and I bought that one specifically for my 1229.
It exhibited a "hallow or canned" resonance on the DUAL arm, something I just couldn't get over. YMMV.

If I had to choose just one from the above list it would be the ADC, with the caveat that finding the right stylus can prove problematic, but when you do, it's a rockin' cartridge.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 12 Jan 2019 05:21
by Othne3l7
Thank you all! I dont understand some of the comments, however I have a good idea which way to go . One thing about aging is your ears are very forgiving....i think.

Re: 1229 stylus / cartridge

Posted: 12 Jan 2019 16:29
by DSJR
As one ages, one's ears become more sensitive to harshness as the actual sensitivity to these frequencies reduces, if you see what I mean. In practise and for me at least (together with friends I've spoken to), it means that any harshness or over assertiveness in the 'glare' frequencies, now sends me running, yet some modern 'BBC derived' speakers that put slight 'dips' at these frequencies (to make them sound 'nicer') now sound dull and uninteresting, which makes their often boomy bass unpleasant (we Brits have a 'reputation' it seems, for making 'polite' sounding speakers - at least the popular ones that sell well abroad).

Sorry, off topic! Regarding the OM20, the Om20 stylus *used to make* an excellent stylus upgrade for the brash sounding Dual 505 series with compatible cartridges. back then, the stylus was only thirty quid or so, but now, it's £150 or so, so rather more of an investment. I'll stick with the equivalent Ortofon 520mk2 in the 1019 though, 'cos it's fun, but I do admit that those with a more orchestral taste might find it a bit 'rude' up top ;)

Good luck with the cartridge choice. i think we've established the 1229 arm is no real impediment to most popular cartridges...