1019 tone arm return acting up

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Dr_Wu
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1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 13 Oct 2018 22:11

Soliciting advice. My Dual 1019 has been functioning well for the past year, since being refurbished. Recently, I experienced random malfunctions on 3 occasions. Then, it stopped. Until today, when 2 records in a row repeated the following malfunction on both sides:

At the end of the record, the tone arm returns to its off position, but as it is lowering to the rest, seems to drift to the right, and then abruptly swings/bounces back onto the grooves of the record (mid-record; not the intro). BTW, I've also noticed this rightward drift while lowering the tone arm onto a Magic Eraser to clean the stylus. The tone arm lowers onto the proper intro grooves on records, however.

I've read the manuals, owner's and service, but didn't see this addressed. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

mrow2
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by mrow2 » 14 Oct 2018 03:13

The service manual is of course a translation from German, and it can be confusing -- for one thing the terms get mixed up, and part names can be confusing. The SM for 1019 doesn't seem to have page numbers, so I can only point to examples like fig. 6, 7, and 9 for instance. The main lever is 191, and is key to steering a lot of the automatic functions. I don't have a 1019 in front of me or maybe I'd be able to point directly to the cause, but the whole auto function is driven by the large cam wheel, the main lever 191 being guided by it, and the "steuerpimpel" (which is called "guide pin" here in 1019) slides upon the flat paddle of the main lever to steer the tonearm during the auto functions. That part is #208 in fig.6 and it's critically important, but you'd never know by looking at these illustrations. You can inspect it (kind of a white mushroom little thing) to see if it is worn out, or if there is a lot of dirty grease on the paddle which contacts it, and carefully clean the area a little bit. It does need to have a light smear of grease, but it should not be real dirty.

There may be an adjustment which is allowing 208 to leave the paddle too early as the cam instructs the "main lever 191" (fig.7) to lower the tonearm, but without having it in front of me I cannot recall what it is. Excessive dirty grease can cause issues like this, also sometimes there's a way to adjust these movements a little bit. See if you can study the SM again in this section (fig. 6 to 9 and understand it a little better. You can look at fig.7 and wonder why 208 is not identified there. To confuse matters, there is #158 in fig.9 described as a "spring stud" but part 208 "guide pin" is more central to the movements I think.

The SM is a bit overwhelming but it's possible to study the explanations and the turntable itself until the movements make sense, and that may lead to a solution. They did not come close to defining the issues which can confront these units some 50 years later. Dirt and wear are common causes of erratic operation since it's totally mechanical, and a better understanding of how it works will lead to a solution I think. Avoid reckless adjustments, there should be very little (if any) adjusting to do. On other models I've seen similar behavior when the main lever paddle pulls away from the steuerpimpel too soon. Excessive wear on the cam gear could be a cause, possibly; you might be able to see that. I don't recall if the main lever guide post ("B" in fig.15) can be adjusted or not to compensate for that. A change in height there would place the main lever paddle closer to 208 during cycle. The grease used was graphite based at that time, and should be replaced with a non-graphite grease. Except for the "guide pin" there is very little there which could wear out, and that part lasts a very long time. There is a solution for that if it's necessary.

I would look for excess dirt and grease on main lever paddle and condition of the guide pin 208 to start with. I'd try to study the movements and visually see what is happening underneath when the tonearm loses control and bounces back over the record. How is the manual cue control, i.e. correct speed or too fast or slow?

Anxious to hear what any others have to say on this; someone may have the exact fix! -- Don

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 14 Oct 2018 12:24

Don, thank you for the incredibly detailed response. I'll follow through on your suggestions (and any that others may post). The Steuerpimpl was replaced 8 months ago with a new part purchased from Germany, so it shouldn't be worn out. The speed of the manual cue control seems correct. Will post results after further investigation. In the meantime, I suppose close manual operation should be safe?

DSJR
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by DSJR » 14 Oct 2018 18:11

My suggestions are a bit 'round the issue' but just to confirm - at final end of play, the main lever pivots to raise the arm, takes the arm to the rest, the pivoted lever on the cam #137 (which should be free to lightly 'click' either way) guides the main lever to stay where it is until the end of the cycle, upon which the arm is (abruptly) lowered and the lever then pivots back quickly to the 'start' position with the cam locating 'stud' near the centre 'parked' position. In auto start mode, the lever #137 is 'clicked' over to the other side, upon which the main lever stud locates a different part of the 'track' in the cam, moving the arm to the set index point (7", 10" or 12") at the start of a record before lowering the stylus, by which time it's already been taken to it's usual 'parking' spot, the 'pimpels' allowing some slight friction as the arm is held in place with the main lever 'paddle' sliding underneath, hence the need for lubricant here. The arrangement on 10" platter models up to the 122* range is different and uses small plastic 'mushroom pimpels' (not sure if the 1218 is the same here - it isn't being like the bigger and later siblings), but with the 1226 family from the mid 70's, the familiar steuerpimpel acting directly on the damped tonearm lift 'piston' seems to take over universally with these models.

Have you by any chance slightly mis-set the cueing height relevant to the main 'auto' lifting height as set by the screw on the top of the tonearm bearing cradle? Dual specifically mention that if the cueing height is set too high, the main lever won't fully release andlateral friction is increased slightly as one of the 'pimpels' isn't fully released when the arm is lowered. I made this mistake on mine, as at first I couldn't get used to the cueing lift one taking the stylus 1/2" or so above a record (I think still in old UK measurements, sorry). Using the cueing device first before engaging 'start' on a single record does look odd compared to the later decks, as the arm almost drops sharply before the cueing mechanism catches it and gently lowers the stylus the last half inch or so - the manual says 8mm but I use a 3mm mat, so 12mm it is ;)

Hope the stuff above helps...

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by mrow2 » 14 Oct 2018 19:03

The main lever paddle (191) is responsible for lowering the tonearm to the rest. What I don't know without looking at one (packed away at the moment) is whether the paddle leaves the steuerpimpel before the rest is reached. If it does, that is where a glop of grease or debris could unintentionally move the arm, or guide stud "B" isn't tight enough in the cam track possibly (this should at least be examined, as well as the depth of the track in the cam gear). Now, it would really Help to watch one in action. Is a spring hanging up, something like that? I could be way off here, just thinking out loud (sort of). And the cueing height adjustment DSJR mentions sounds very plausible. But that this is intermittent has me wondering about something sticking on occasion. Since you already replaced the steuerpimpel I'd expect the grease and dirt issue to be ok.

The 1218 uses the newer steuerpimpel; 1209 was a cross between the two system designs (with the upper deck looking like 1218 and underneath more like the 10xx if I recall correctly) and uses the mushroom, and the 10xx series used the good old reliable mushroom.

Hugues TR4
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Hugues TR4 » 15 Oct 2018 09:40

I would inspect the cam wheel and its travel carefully: why don't you take it out and clean it as per Klaus' instructions in the Dual Servicing and re-lube it as explained in the same thread? Also check the correct "click" and work of the lever #137' as per mentioned by DSJR. Also the #136 tiny spring should do its work properly.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by mrow2 » 15 Oct 2018 23:51

Fix eyes on the tiny spring 136 so as to not damage it; very delicate. Agree with properly servicing the cam wheel 135 or at the very least a good inspection, gentle cleaning and new grease. How does Guide Stud B look (too much play)?

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 16 Oct 2018 05:30

Thank you all. Busy week for me and won't get to it until the weekend, soonest. Will report back.

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 07 Nov 2018 22:09

Back to report. I couldn't get at the Steuerpimpl, so took the TT to my handy-dandy tech, Dave, at The Vinyl Groove (shameless plug for a good guy!). As you all advised, the tone arm lowering problem was due to "schmutz" that had collected around the "guide pin". Cleaned up, and all better.

Thanks to all who replied. Hope this helps someone else.

mrow2
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by mrow2 » 08 Nov 2018 03:28

"Schmutz." In the German-to-English translation, I missed that one! Wonderful!

Dr_Wu
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 08 Nov 2018 04:54

"Schmutzenpimpel" to the cognoscenti :lol:

Thanks, again, for your assistance on all things Dual, Don.

T68
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by T68 » 08 Nov 2018 06:59

Ah, that old schmutz got you! (in Swedish it's "smuts")

mrow2
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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by mrow2 » 08 Nov 2018 07:01

You are welcome!

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Re: 1019 tone arm return acting up

Post by Dr_Wu » 08 Nov 2018 12:38

T68 wrote:
08 Nov 2018 06:59
Ah, that old schmutz got you! (in Swedish it's "smuts")
Tack for the Swedish lesson T68. :D

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