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Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not turn

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Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not turn

Postby renzostudent » 07 Feb 2018 18:48

Hello everyone
Thank you very much for all that I have been able to learn thanks to your contributions.
I recently bought a dual 1229 in very good condition, the plate turned and I managed to listen to some vinyl, very good sound.

I decided to lubricate the engine, I was guided by the Youtube video
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siKbGXS7ijM[/youtube]
, disarm the engine correctly and lubricate it. The problem came when I put it together, I suffered a lot to screw the nuts, I succeeded and then turned on the engine and did not turn anything, I am very scared and turn it off, I was almost on the verge of crying, I hope I did not spoil the engine.

days later I found out that you have to center the motor correctly and before assembling it you have to center and you have to turn without any problem, and more calm try it again and I can not center it, I can not screw the bolts, they are too short for the threads .

Is there a tutorial that explains how to do it? can you Help me please I'm desperate, I've seen guides and everything but they do not talk about how to center it and that the bolts fit,

Please, I just hope I did not let you down and put it together correctly, thank you very much
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby mrow2 » 08 Feb 2018 01:09

There is a Sticky at the top of this forum, Servicing Dual Turntables, and a motor service guide is linked inside that one. I also have info in my own PDF guide but this sticky may
have what you need to see how it should go back together. Motor shaft will not turn if the nuts are too tight on it. If it stayed on too long, it may become damaged. Must first get shaft to turn freely by loosening the top and bottom case so it is not too tight, and centering the shaft. Study the instructions. There are replacements available, once in a while. Good luck. Don
Steuerpimpel, Control nipple stud, Guide (and sometimes it's not even listed or numbered) -- Whatever name for them is found in the factory Service Manual; old worn and cracked ones can rub tonearms just half-way. Or, not at all. Keep 'em guiding and gliding.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby Hugues TR4 » 08 Feb 2018 11:16

Hi Renzo,

If you follow the attached instructions, you cannot go wrong!
This tutorial was made by our Dual specialist who used to be tech manager at Dual Canada (dualcan).

https://www.vinylengine.com/ve_download ... sion_2.pdf

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
Marantz Mod 6170/Marantz E 5000 cart
RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby renzostudent » 08 Feb 2018 16:40

thank you very much
Like I'm going to try tonight, I send you photos, as I tell you, the girls are too small and I can not put the thread, try it!
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby renzostudent » 08 Feb 2018 17:11

my engine is like this when I uncover it, is it wrong?

Image
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby Spinner45 » 08 Feb 2018 18:38

renzostudent wrote:my engine is like this when I uncover it, is it wrong?

Image


That motor is definitely damaged.
The laminations are a mess from careless sloppy disassembly.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby renzostudent » 08 Feb 2018 20:36

Does not it work then? do not tell me = (
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby renzostudent » 08 Feb 2018 20:54

I have the possibility to buy the engine of the dual 1214 and 1225, this engine by what I see is very different.
Could you serve me for my dual 1229?
I am sorry that this in this state, in Peru must be the only 1229 that exists.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby Hugues TR4 » 09 Feb 2018 10:18

The only alternative for a 1229 motor is AFAIK the similar (or same) 1219.
All the others won't fit, including the very similar looking 1019 (different rotor axle thickness).
They do appear on e-bay regularly though.
Have you tried to reopen your old motor and treat it, strictly following the "Servicing Motor and Drive Manual" I pointed in my last post? It is a bit of a tedious work, but doable and well worth it. Do not try and force anything and keep all the parts strictly straight/parallel when reassembling.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
Marantz Mod 6170/Marantz E 5000 cart
RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby lreneat » 14 Feb 2018 00:53

Does the motor spin freely? If not, switch the bearing cap(s) 180 degrees. Is motor correctly wired-up so that current is directed correctly to motor? If all else fails, replace the motor, sell parts from turntable, or just sell the turntable as is and be free of the problem. Sometimes it's easier to just cut one's losses and go with a reliable late 1970's through 1980's Technics turntable and spend one's time actually listening to records without wondering when the next Dual problem will arrive.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby Hugues TR4 » 14 Feb 2018 10:36

I wouldn't give up so quickly at this point.
Remember you own one of the best idler drive changer Dual ever made!
Wish I could find one over here for a reasonable price! (I have three 1219, all fully operational).
It's got the advantage of being completely "disassemblable" and does not rely on too much electronics.
Have you disassembled your motor again and followed Dualcan's instructions as per the link I sent you?
Try pressing the laminations back together in a vise and check if the coil is intact.
Work slowly and carefully, don't rush anything and do what you're told by the guide and you might be able to correct the damage.
Let us know the results!
If your motor is really fried, there are two for sale currently on e-bay (remember the 1019 is NOT compatible).
Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
Marantz Mod 6170/Marantz E 5000 cart
RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby DSJR » 14 Feb 2018 12:48

lreneat wrote: Sometimes it's easier to just cut one's losses and go with a reliable late 1970's through 1980's Technics turntable and spend one's time actually listening to records without wondering when the next Dual problem will arrive.


I have to rise to this reply...

The 1229 has the potential to sonically rise above all the lower-caste Technics decks made in the late 70's and I think I'd rather have one than an almost current SL1200mk2 series as well, which *sounds* pretty crude and 'ballistic' in stock form! The 1229 just needs a service, replacing worn/hardened parts and the butchered motor replacing (Dual never made the motor like this and dismantling it Klaus' way, prevents this kind of damage).

To the OP - ask 'organdonorparts' if they have a good suitable motor if eBay can't Help you.

Wonderful old machine when you've got it right and with a good modern cartridge (it should happily take top AT's and Ortofons like the 2M Black or AT750 and all the lower cost models in these ranges) it should SOUND great too in a musical-involvement sense.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby lreneat » 14 Feb 2018 19:35

When I raise the volume high on any of my 8 Duals, I hear some noise feed back. On my Technics SL-D1 I hear zero feed back noise. I also go with what the specs each manufacturer gives in their user or service manual. I never fear that something typical and undesirable will show up when using the Technics. I would not personally argue that there are no tiny nuances between Dual and Technics players. Perhaps the argument is as simple as comparing a piano tuned by a master tuner and a tool/machine which is a more dead on tonally accurate tuning device. I personally think that it's the hum and such related noise which makes the Duals sound richer in sound if the term richer is what we are comparing apples to oranges with. A different example: The more problematic an expensive car is the more it's subtle good points are over embellished. Some people love the challenge of keeping things viable. I may be a bit cantankerous, but I try to get to the bottom of what ails my different Duals. If I expected perfection, Dual turntables would not be at the top of my list. I except the small imperfections because I have 4 rim drive and 4 belt drive Duals. Only 1 was bought new in 1972 when I was 17. This Dual 1215S has generally been reliable. Only problem over the years has been speed slippage which was an easy fix. Original RCA's were garbage. The cuing drop has become fast, but I suppose that can be improved by cleaning cuing tube and repacking it with 500000 silicone oil if and when I get too bored (ha-ha) with daily living. Love the cuing arm on Dual turntables. It's the saving grace of Dual players.
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby Hugues TR4 » 14 Feb 2018 22:50

When I rise the volume up to max, I always get some faint background noise from any of my turntables ( Marantz 6170 direct drive, Thorens TD 166 and 146, PE 2020L, Elac Miracord 50H and my Dual's 1019 (2), 1225, 1219 (3), but it never interferes with the listening pleasure at normal level.
Maybe it's because of my amps (Marantz 2245 and SR430) or the connexions (all the RCA plugs are new though)...
Anyway, I would never risk turning my volume up to max because I want to save my ears and ... my windows.
So I'm fully satisfied with the performances of my Dual's and I like them!

Cheers,

Hugh.
Dual 1019/Shure M97xE/Jico SAS stylus + 1219/Shure V15 III + 1225
Thorens TD 146 & TD 166/Ortofon OMB5 and OM40 carts
Marantz Mod 6170/Marantz E 5000 cart
RCA 45 J-2 RP 190 record changer (1952)
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Re: Help with the 1229 dual motor lubricate it and do not tu

Postby DSJR » 14 Feb 2018 23:00

I'm talking subtle nuances in the original recordings missing in low-cost vinyl playback. I ceased listening to the 'sound' years ago.

My Dual 1214 with 1216 platter adds very little of its own noise to that of the record and it's benign in any case. The 701 and now the 601 add nothing I can hear and the sound of the recordings themselves rule over all. The 1019 has a slight motor drone coming through even with replacement idler and serviced motor, but I'm sensitive to that when others aren't and the late 60's stereo's it was part of wouldn't have noticed either really.

My recommendation to you is to flog all your Duals and put the revenue towards a more serious modern turntable (current Regas are a great place to start and a doddle to maintain in the future). No headaches, posting on here about yet another Dual fault which annoys you and hopefully, clean and accurate reproduction that'll see you (and I) out...

Dual turntables have *usually* proved reliable record playing companions for decades now and it's only when they're approaching their half-century that issues are cropping up. The fact that so many have been through several owners by now also means they probably haven't been looked after as when new and being rather specialised highly 'mechanical' devices, they will need attention. The introduction of compact disc in 1983 also saw many thousands of turntables put into storage in varying conditions for many years at a time and it's only now with renewed interest in vinyl that they're being pulled out for use again and all these issues are coming to the fore.

P.S. I love the tonearm on most Duals and even the ULM types have their place if not messed with as many are sadly. Even my 1214 (with ton-up 1216 platter for quieter running) can happily take a Shure V15 III at one extreme and it even happily sounded good with my Ortofon MC30 Super, a cartridge standard that would NEVER be part of this deck's cartridge portfolio. Neither of these would be my general recommendation for a 1214 with underside bias (anti-skate) adjustment, but even on this lowly model I've been genuinely surprised how good the arm is - a 1216 would be the better choice (4 pole motor as standard rather than optional, heavier cast platter fitted and user adjustable bias correction/anti-skate) and a $200 AT cartridge (530?) should be a lovely sound once serviced.

I can add no more.....
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