Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

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Jmickow
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Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by Jmickow » 06 Dec 2018 11:09

Hi all,

Very new to old turntables and fixing them myself. I have acquired an old Dual 1229 from my wife's father. I remember some time ago maybe 10 years I did play some records on it. Now after receiving it the platter does not spin. I opened it up and the motor is working fine. I did need to clean up and oil the parts connected to the switch for changing the speed. It was originally jammed up so it could not be changed and the idler wheel wheel was not against motor. Now the speed can be switched and the idler wheel is pushed up against motor nicely. But unfortunately the platter is still not spinning. Any ideas what could be causing this? My only idea how to fix this would be to add a band or belt on idler wheel to insure it was pressing up against platter.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Alec124c41
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by Alec124c41 » 06 Dec 2018 16:47

The idler wheel is on a small arm, spring loaded to pull it against the spindle and the rim of the platter. The lube in the bushing it moves on, as well as the lube in the idler wheel hub, gets stiff, preventing the idler from doing its job. A small drop of oil in each location should Help, but keep oil away from the rubber.
The rubber edge of the idler wheel can become hard, and glazed. It no longer gets a grip. You can try sanding it, but you must keep it round and concentric.

Cheers,
Alec

DSJR
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by DSJR » 07 Dec 2018 08:57

Alec is quite correct :D

PLEASE don't do the amateur bodge of shortening any springs to increase the 'pull' on these stiff parts. Duals were made and toleranced very well indeed and they don't go off other than dry lubricants.

The driving 'face' of the Dual idler wheel is slightly radiused and not 'square.' if re-facing it, please try to keep it that way - spinning in a drill chuck while gently 'sanding' it with fine emery paper can Help and may be all you need to do.

Jmickow
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by Jmickow » 07 Dec 2018 09:15

Thanks for the tips! I hope I have time to try out before heading home for Christmas, will update if this solved the issue.
DSJR, the spring attached to the idler arm is actually stretched a little bit. Will this also have an effect and if so can I buy a replacement? I tried looking at the exploded axon in the service manual but had a hard time finding it and it also seems they don't list the sizes anyways.

DSJR
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by DSJR » 08 Dec 2018 10:37

Is it stretched because someone pulled it, or does it appear stretched because that's the job it needs to do?

Idlers usually self-engage naturally once brought into play, the angles and vectors involved see to that I believe. Just get everything clean, free to move and pivot (take great care with these parts) and everything else should follow on from this I reckon. It's highly likely the motor will need a service too and of course the other now dangerous (to reliability and repair bills) rubber sleeve around the tonearm height adjuster. Mrow2 Don has replacements...

Jmickow
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by Jmickow » 10 Dec 2018 15:03

I believe someone has stretched it, there is not a uniform gap all along spring, there is one space with a large gap. I think step one will be clean all the suggested parts and then go from there. Heading home for the holidays so won't be able to see if I can get this oldie running before the new year. I have a sneaky suspicion I will be back here come 2019, haha. Happy holidays all!

DSJR
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by DSJR » 10 Dec 2018 21:01

Check the likes of organdonor parts for cheap replacements like this - he carries more parts than he lists and it's worth checking to see if this spring part is shared with other decks. Garrard often shared parts over many models but Dual didn't seem to so much...

tep392
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by tep392 » 11 Dec 2018 00:17

I see replacement idler wheels being sold that are NOS in original box and bag. Would these also be hardened from age? I'm tempted to order one but don't want to find out it's no better than what I already have in my 1219. Mine doesn't seem hard, but edge doesn't grab at 33 1/3 setting. 45 and 78 grab enough to turn platter. I'm also considering rubber rejuvinator. Anyone have luck with that stuff?

DSJR
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Re: Dual 1229 motor running but platter not spinning

Post by DSJR » 11 Dec 2018 11:07

The main thing is to CLEAN the idler drive surface and also the driving surface of the platter. It may need little more than a wipe with alcohol. Do bear in mind the Dual idlers have a radiused driving 'edge' and are not flat as Garrard's are for example.

My experience of Dual idlers is that the 70's onwards examples seem to keep fairly supple, but other climates may give different results. I fitted a 'new old' idler to my 1214 with 1216 platter and both old and 'new' seemed similar. The 1019 I use had an earlier idler with harder compound and a later replacement to this quietened it down a lot, although I'd like it better. There's a chap in Germany who does a re-tyre in a modern compound (yellow colour?) and I really need to send the old wheel to him (lack of spare money and 'life' has prevented me from doing this as yet).

To start with and after confirming the idler mounting bracket is totally free to pivot side to side and back and forth, try some fine 'emery paper' on the edge of the idler wheel, bearing in mind the radiused edge. Don't go 'mad' with this, but spinning it in a drill chuck and GENTLY dressing the edge may be all you need to do before considering a replacement.

i haven't yet tried rubber rejuvenator materials so dare not comment. You'll need to try it and see and report back :)

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