The X Files (merged cable topic)

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JDJX
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by JDJX » 04 Jan 2019 17:46

Two different cables of pure copper and of the same gauge are exactly the same ..... end of story.
Anything else is square in the realm of snake oil. :)

Chuck Glider
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by Chuck Glider » 04 Jan 2019 18:09

Wow, so interesting, thanks for posting !

Can we all agree that mega bucks for speaker cable is just wrong!?

In the Stereophile blind test, this caught my eye:

"Before this test 69% of our test subjects thought that speaker cables could make a significant difference. After this test, 86% believe that speaker cables can make significant differences."

And in the Sound n vision test, considering the double blind tests, pretty much every listener could hear the difference between 24 gauge and other cable.

dysmike
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by dysmike » 04 Jan 2019 18:50

Chuck Glider wrote:
04 Jan 2019 18:09

Can we all agree that mega bucks for speaker cable is just wrong!?
Yes, you rapidly hit a point of diminishing returns.

If you were to look at my cables, I had some canare quad core.. and terminated them with spades and banana plugs. To make my wife accept them more, I put techflex over it. Wow, looks fancy. Works well.

poutrew
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by poutrew » 04 Jan 2019 19:13

dysmike wrote:
04 Jan 2019 18:50
Chuck Glider wrote:
04 Jan 2019 18:09

Can we all agree that mega bucks for speaker cable is just wrong!?
Yes, you rapidly hit a point of diminishing returns.

If you were to look at my cables, I had some canare quad core.. and terminated them with spades and banana plugs. To make my wife accept them more, I put techflex over it. Wow, looks fancy. Works well.
The one true fact in this entire discussion is that looks trump physics every time... especially if you have to lay exposed cable in a room the wife frequents... The company that can make cable look 'sexy' to the better half is a company that has passed the real world test. :) As a tech nerd, I know to minimize the L/C properties of any wire run, you can take and split 2-conductor line and run the lengths in opposite directions across the room, preferably at right angles, to the speaker. And if I did that anywhere but in the garage, the county coroner would be over to collect my body... :mrgreen:

Chuck Glider
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by Chuck Glider » 04 Jan 2019 19:22

poutrew wrote:
04 Jan 2019 19:13

The one true fact in this entire discussion is that looks trump physics every time... especially if you have to lay exposed cable in a room the wife frequents... The company that can make cable look 'sexy' to the better half is a company that has passed the real world test. :)
:lol: Too right! In my student days, I used 1mm solid core twin and earth house wiring cable. When I got married, it was out the door in a flash.

hobie1dog
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by hobie1dog » 04 Jan 2019 20:40

Cable thread #1,674. Wonder how many years we can milk this out?

lenjack
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by lenjack » 05 Jan 2019 04:14

Does PHd stand for "pile high and deep"? Does knowing which cables are in use during the test affect your judgement? Can you be sure? If I'm being tested, I don't want to know which cables I'm listening to when there's a switch. I agree with the 2nd poster, that all speakers sound different.

However, I'm seriously thinking of cryogenically treating my coat hangers.

Forgive me, but I simply can't help wondering if there is the remotest chance of any commercial interest here?
Last edited by lenjack on 05 Jan 2019 04:26, edited 1 time in total.

Alec124c41
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by Alec124c41 » 05 Jan 2019 04:19

I have gathered a few different speaker cables, over the years.
My standard is #16 speaker wire from the dollar store.
I also have what appears to be Monster Cable, some flat cable, Cat 5 cables, silver #16, some #12 pairs and some #12 separates, and some unidentified cable with 6 twisted wires, 3 black and 3 purple.
Most of these have been found at yard sales.
Sometimes I just use whatever is handy.
I intend to spend some time comparing these, when I actually get my space cleared out and organized, but i have to admit to being a bit of a procrastinator.
I still can't see spending thousands of dollars on wires. I can buy a car for that!

Cheers,
Alec

addicted-to-analog
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by addicted-to-analog » 05 Jan 2019 06:33

I've compared the Belden 8402 with Switchcraft RCAs to a variety of different interconnects (some hundreds of dollars, some thousands). All sighted tests, over an extended period of time, in my room and with my systems.

I prefer the simple and very reasonably priced Belden 8402 w/Switchcraft RCAs. Sounds more like music.

Same comparisons between the reasonably priced Dueland 12ga and several far more expensive speaker wire. I prefer the Dueland because it sounds more like music.

YMMV.....

Chuck Glider
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Re: Speaker Cable listening tests

Post by Chuck Glider » 05 Jan 2019 11:17

Lenjack, I've no interest other than curiosity.

cafe latte
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Re: The X Files (merged cable topic)

Post by cafe latte » 05 Jan 2019 14:13

Problem with this hobby not sure why hifi, but discussing stylus profiles over at AK. Someone mentions conical wear faster than anything else which of course is not true it is elliptical that wear faster due to contact area and this is common knowledge or at least I thought it was.. The result backlash from a few people was bizarre it was like the cable thread which was nuts to me as stylus profile and wear is a done deal, we know which profiles wear most and this is decades of known facts yet people will still argue with no real knowledge on the subject and passionately too facts or not. We have diagrams showing contact surfaces of stylus and even stylus life tables from manufactures but no some will argue on even faced with all the facts. And back to cable debate....
Chris

Spinner45
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Re: The X Files (merged cable topic)

Post by Spinner45 » 05 Jan 2019 18:18

cafe latte wrote:
05 Jan 2019 14:13
Problem with this hobby not sure why hifi, but discussing stylus profiles over at AK. Someone mentions conical wear faster than anything else which of course is not true it is elliptical that wear faster due to contact area and this is common knowledge or at least I thought it was.. The result backlash from a few people was bizarre it was like the cable thread which was nuts to me as stylus profile and wear is a done deal, we know which profiles wear most and this is decades of known facts yet people will still argue with no real knowledge on the subject and passionately too facts or not. We have diagrams showing contact surfaces of stylus and even stylus life tables from manufactures but no some will argue on even faced with all the facts. And back to cable debate....
Chris
I can sympathize with you there Chris.
Some people, looking at the world through "rose-colored glasses" will insist that the sky is purple, not blue, on a sunny day.
They absolutely refuse to be told anything different, holding fast to their own beliefs, insisting that they are not wrong.
Some people have a major hangup being told that they're wrong, or that their information is faulty.

An article that they read somewhere, perhaps even by an adored, revered individual, is considered a "bible", is "set in stone", to be religiously adhered to, and not negotiable.
And you're not going to convice those people anything different.

You can talk till you're out of breath, show scientific fact, but still they'll wipe their hiney they way they want.

addicted-to-analog
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Re: The X Files (merged cable topic)

Post by addicted-to-analog » 05 Jan 2019 19:59

Spinner45 wrote:
05 Jan 2019 18:18
cafe latte wrote:
05 Jan 2019 14:13
Problem with this hobby not sure why hifi, but discussing stylus profiles over at AK. Someone mentions conical wear faster than anything else which of course is not true it is elliptical that wear faster due to contact area and this is common knowledge or at least I thought it was.. The result backlash from a few people was bizarre it was like the cable thread which was nuts to me as stylus profile and wear is a done deal, we know which profiles wear most and this is decades of known facts yet people will still argue with no real knowledge on the subject and passionately too facts or not. We have diagrams showing contact surfaces of stylus and even stylus life tables from manufactures but no some will argue on even faced with all the facts. And back to cable debate....
Chris
I can sympathize with you there Chris.
Some people, looking at the world through "rose-colored glasses" will insist that the sky is purple, not blue, on a sunny day.
They absolutely refuse to be told anything different, holding fast to their own beliefs, insisting that they are not wrong.
Some people have a major hangup being told that they're wrong, or that their information is faulty.

An article that they read somewhere, perhaps even by an adored, revered individual, is considered a "bible", is "set in stone", to be religiously adhered to, and not negotiable.
And you're not going to convice those people anything different.

You can talk till you're out of breath, show scientific fact, but still they'll wipe their hiney they way they want.
Then why does the same group keep jumping in with your "all cables sound the same" mantra and blow up every thread where folks who can and do hear differences are trying to have a conversation?

As we've discussed before, my goal is to get folks to listen to lots of gear (including wire and cable), gain experience, learn to trust their own ears and make their buying decisions based on their own system goals and criteria.

I absolutely hear differences in wire and cables and have listened to lots of different examples in my systems - from budget to very expensive.

Why do I use the fairly inexpensive and reasonable interconnects and speaker wire I use? Because it is simple, doesn't screw up the music, works with pretty much everything, and doesn't get in the way of me connecting with the music.

No DBT/ABX test needed.

Just my opinion and YMMV.

tlscapital
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Re: The X Files (merged cable topic)

Post by tlscapital » 05 Jan 2019 22:30

addicted-to-analog wrote:
05 Jan 2019 19:59
Then why does the same group keep jumping in with your "all cables sound the same" mantra and blow up every thread where folks who can and do hear differences are trying to have a conversation ?

As we've discussed before, my goal is to get folks to listen to lots of gear (including wire and cable), gain experience, learn to trust their own ears and make their buying decisions based on their own system goals and criteria.

I absolutely hear differences in wire and cables and have listened to lots of different examples in my systems - from budget to very expensive.

Why do I use the fairly inexpensive and reasonable interconnects and speaker wire I use? Because it is simple, doesn't screw up the music, works with pretty much everything, and doesn't get in the way of me connecting with the music.

No DBT/ABX test needed.

Just my opinion and YMMV.
Yop ! Yop ! And Yop !

Spinner45
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Re: The X Files (merged cable topic)

Post by Spinner45 » 05 Jan 2019 23:21

addicted-to-analog wrote:
05 Jan 2019 19:59
Spinner45 wrote:
05 Jan 2019 18:18

I can sympathize with you there Chris.
Some people, looking at the world through "rose-colored glasses" will insist that the sky is purple, not blue, on a sunny day.
They absolutely refuse to be told anything different, holding fast to their own beliefs, insisting that they are not wrong.
Some people have a major hangup being told that they're wrong, or that their information is faulty.

An article that they read somewhere, perhaps even by an adored, revered individual, is considered a "bible", is "set in stone", to be religiously adhered to, and not negotiable.
And you're not going to convice those people anything different.

You can talk till you're out of breath, show scientific fact, but still they'll wipe their hiney they way they want.
Then why does the same group keep jumping in with your "all cables sound the same" mantra and blow up every thread where folks who can and do hear differences are trying to have a conversation?

As we've discussed before, my goal is to get folks to listen to lots of gear (including wire and cable), gain experience, learn to trust their own ears and make their buying decisions based on their own system goals and criteria.

I absolutely hear differences in wire and cables and have listened to lots of different examples in my systems - from budget to very expensive.

Why do I use the fairly inexpensive and reasonable interconnects and speaker wire I use? Because it is simple, doesn't screw up the music, works with pretty much everything, and doesn't get in the way of me connecting with the music.

No DBT/ABX test needed.

Just my opinion and YMMV.
Indeed, wiring "can" make a difference in the quality of sound from a system.
......To a point, of course.
Copper wire, if thin (22 or 24 gauge) when run for speakers, will naturally sound crappy, because of the losses involved.

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