Snake Oil Product of the Year Awards

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EdAInWestOC
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Post by EdAInWestOC » 13 Jan 2010 12:23

A thought on interconnects...

I am amazed on the number of and technologies supposedly used on the variety of interconnects available. Some of them are good and I am sure some of them keep their owners on their yacht laughing all the way to the bank.

I avoided the relative high end of interconnects until I tried a pair of Kimber Heros somes years ago. They made a considerable difference in my system. Before the Heros I had a mixture of fairly expensive Monster Cable and various medium priced interconnects (all less than or near $100 USD/pr).

I am not subject to illusions (unless you include certain dreams or the 60s) and have a frugal nature, so I avoid unnecessary expenditures. The Kimber Heros made such a postive impression I replaced all of my interconnects with them and that was not an inexpensive proposition.

There are expensive interconnects available that are worth the money (IMO Kimber Heros) and there are those that waste your money by including unnecessary stuff that just justifies their inflated price. If the price of an IC reaches over $250 USD per 1M pair I stop and question what I am buying and whether it is worth the price.

This is just wire and connectors after all and there better be a dammed good reason for the price.

For those who haven't ventured into this world...its all about low level detail. If you are fine with your system and you don't need more detail don't spend the money. Apologies to any dealers who hang around here.

Ed

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Post by Guest » 13 Jan 2010 12:31

EdAInWestOC wrote:I am not subject to illusions
What if we are all vulnerable to illusions, to some extent, when it comes to recalling and judging sound, and theirin lies the explanation ? Would make some sense of a lot of things that otherwise don't. Not just interconnects.

Money and cables spontaneously cropped up again, BTW !

Jorlsafar
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Post by Jorlsafar » 13 Jan 2010 12:34

Hi Ed,

We think alike :D

An audiophile pressing in the old days would most often be just that. That was
something you (I, that is) could not afford.

These days the it could be just a pressing of a master made from a mid
nineties CD of a recording made in the seventies, sounding far worse (in
each and all respects) than any pressing made before 1985, say. It matters
little, then, if the LP is thicker/heavier and the cover made of fancy paper.

It could be a real let down; what should be 45 minutes of enjoying a long
out of print LP in pristine audiophile quality, becomes a great disapointment
:(

Perhaps this not snake oil as such but plain misrepresentation as suggested
by NickT and therefore OT and could warrant another thread.

All the best/J

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Post by Guest » 13 Jan 2010 13:14

Hi Ed,

We think alike

An audiophile pressing in the old days would most often be just that. That was
something you (I, that is) could not afford.

These days the it could be just a pressing of a master made from a mid
nineties CD of a recording made in the seventies, sounding far worse (in
each and all respects) than any pressing made before 1985, say. It matters
little, then, if the LP is thicker/heavier and the cover made of fancy paper.

It could be a real let down; what should be 45 minutes of enjoying a long
out of print LP in pristine audiophile quality, becomes a great disapointment


Perhaps this not snake oil as such but plain misrepresentation as suggested
by NickT and therefore OT and could warrant another thread.

All the best/J
I agree. The issue behind "audiophile pressings" is pretty straightforward these days...its simply marketing mis-representation as there is no worldwide "standard" that has to be conformed to for the label "audiophile pressing". Many years ago, the problem (rarely) existed as there was greater honesty within the industry, but as the industry has grown, so has the marketing BS. This, as far as I am concerned, extends to all of the products referred to as "snake oil", and I do include cables which hover between measured standards/quality and sheer BS claims. This won't change anytime soon as most manufacturers are wise to the fact that subjectivity plays a larger part of the kit selection process than we'd like to admit and if you perceive subtle differences, then they exist. If those differences are "good", then the product gets a thumbs up. What works in one system may not in another, or it could be that there are other reasons for the sonic differences when comparing cables, the point is that nomatter what extended debates and performance graphs are flung about on VE in protest against one side or the other, there will never be a clear cut argument based on fact to convince that these products are worth, well, they're worth! Common sense should prevail, and anyone wishing to spend large amounts on cables are free to do so if thats what makes them happy...just don't attempt to tell the rest of us that the results are meaningful for our systems or that our own kit is somehow inferior because you will never win that argument based on fact, double blind listening tests or anything else. DBL still has its merits though...

fscl
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Post by fscl » 13 Jan 2010 13:52

I believe in aloe myself but here it is:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3101890273 ... eItemTypes

Good luck.

Fred :)

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Post by Guest » 13 Jan 2010 14:21

I
believe in aloe myself but here it is:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3.....eItemTypes

Good luck.
for self embrication or as bearing oil? :lol: :lol:

henkuk
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Post by henkuk » 13 Jan 2010 15:46

fscl wrote:I believe in aloe myself but here it is:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3101890273 ... eItemTypes

Good luck.

Fred :)
Masage this in circular motion slowly on the floor in front of your speakers. It will reduce unwanted reflections when the sound leaves the system and makes it glide unhindered across the room towards you......

For a smoother and altogether more lubricated presentation....

EdAInWestOC
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Post by EdAInWestOC » 13 Jan 2010 16:07

henkuk wrote:
fscl wrote:I believe in aloe myself but here it is:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3101890273 ... eItemTypes

Good luck.

Fred :)
Masage this in circular motion slowly on the floor in front of your speakers. It will reduce unwanted reflections when the sound leaves the system and makes it glide unhindered across the room towards you......

For a smoother and altogether more lubricated presentation....
Easy now...this thread may get interesting.

pivot
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Post by pivot » 13 Jan 2010 16:12

Bigears wrote:for self embrication....? :lol: :lol:
"Ya got trouble...right here in River City...

and that starts with "t" and the rhymes with "e"

and that stands for....embrication"

bastlnut
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Post by bastlnut » 13 Jan 2010 16:35

hallo,

the question of products we label as 'snake oil'.
well, i think that the first problem is that we label them at all.
this creates a certain prejudice before anything at all is known about the product.
there it is again, the label 'product'. this connotates that it is something to buy.
ok, in most cases it is, but that alone puts it into a sceptical light for the most of us.

i am sceptical of science in general.
i am not saying that it is not good, but it has made no aadvancements in and of itself in a very very long time.
if scientists are so good and knowledgable, why are there none questioning the institution of science anymore?
there are none even questioning the tools they have to use, or inventing new tools!

to say the least, when a claim of 'there is no scientific evidence to support....blah blah blah' it is not taken seriously by me at all.
it is a diversion, that is all. most turn off their scepticism at this point so it is a good sales technique.
i am not trying to insult anyone, i am just expresssing my point of view on the subject.
as the saying goes, you never know until you try it!

regards,
bastlnut

Guest

Post by Guest » 13 Jan 2010 16:58

bastlnut wrote:........if scientists are so good and knowledgable, why are there none questioning the institution of science anymore?
there are none even questioning the tools they have to use, or inventing new tools! ............
as the saying goes, you never know until you try it!
My prof promised I would be institutionalised one day if I kept on the way I was going. And I invented the warp engine just this week !

Point is, do you know even after you try it ? :wink:

bastlnut
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Post by bastlnut » 13 Jan 2010 17:30

ld wrote:
bastlnut wrote:........if scientists are so good and knowledgable, why are there none questioning the institution of science anymore?
there are none even questioning the tools they have to use, or inventing new tools! ............
as the saying goes, you never know until you try it!
My prof promised I would be institutionalised one day if I kept on the way I was going. And I invented the warp engine just this week !

Point is, do you know even after you try it ? :wink:
hallo,

the point is, that you will now (then) have something to go on.

regards,
bastlnut

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Post by MonkeyBoy » 13 Jan 2010 17:52

I just went back to the Virtual Dynamics web site to check out some of their stuff and I'm just flabbergasted. One set of cables is cryogenically treated and another is heat treated. Hmmmm...

Here are a couple of pictures of their stuff that I thought were worth a good laugh:
12053
12054

I couldn't help but notice that on the pages where they show their amps there is no information at all, just a very small picture and an "add to cart" tab. Hmmmm....
Harmonic Stabalizer


Similar in concept to the Genesis Brass Vibration Clutch, the Harmonic Stabalizer is compressed straight down to the cable conductor, more than doubling the power of the Dynamic Filtering particle fill on its own. Each stabalizer is custom designed for each cable series, gaining effectiveness as you go up the Virtual Dynamics ladder from Nite to Judge.

This the technical information for the two photos above. Apparently you just slide the metal tag along the cable length until audio nirvana is attained. I expect to see these in Buddhist temples worldwide soon. :wink:

There are other claims made about their products which you will just have to see for yourself. I will simply close by asking this question-if this is essentially now a thread about audio BS, why has noone heretofore mentioned Bose? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

aardvarkash10
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Post by aardvarkash10 » 13 Jan 2010 18:06

bastlnut wrote: i am sceptical of science in general.
i am not saying that it is not good, but it has made no aadvancements in and of itself in a very very long time.
if scientists are so good and knowledgable, why are there none questioning the institution of science anymore?
there are none even questioning the tools they have to use, or inventing new tools!
Sorry bastlnut, but that statement is so very prejudged, uninformed and wrong it eliminates you from any real discussion on the subject.

Guest

Post by Guest » 13 Jan 2010 18:14

Just to point out how monkeyboy seems to feel about those products in his last post is how I feel about many 'accepted' hifi products which many on this forum testify to hearing effects with. On one level it's funny, and at another it's sort of disturbing. And how do you know which ones are funny and which ones are real at a collective level, where does the a priori knowledge that something might be phony come from ? It doesn't always work, e.g pivot's 1st page post......some uncertainty. Reading material possibly ? I don't read any hifi literature FWIW. It's very strange.

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