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platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

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platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

Postby plexi » 24 Oct 2017 10:59

I've been playing with these 3 options of platter/arm relationship and have recorded some samples, listen back and am forming some impressions on the differences between a fully suspended AR and a hybrid with only platter suspended on springs.

Anyone have any experience or even some theoretical ruminations about why the original design is best (if you think it is) and why the other options sound as they do. At this point I am surprised that a suspended platter with a solid mounted arm (in my tests a separate armpod off table) sounds quite good. Tracking is not quite as good as stock it seems. As for solid platter and same solid mounted arm, I hear some stridency and lack of dynamics, although this might improve with a custom plinth

But anyone else use a hybrid arrangement (suspended platter with a solid/separate arm) with success? I see some doing a full solid mount as well as a solid arm with still suspended platter hybrid. (see link below)

According to the original design of course both platter and arm should be suspended on same surface so why does a hybrid arrangement work at all? and to my ears, sound quite good?

also, in this instance, lets assume we are just referring to sound and assume there is no need to isolate table from external speaker vibrations. I know that is a real world issue, but for the sake of discussion, i'd like to leave that out of the equation



http://www.gigharboraudio.com/gha-custom-units/
Garard 401 stanton881s rega rb303, Thorens125/Acos Lustre grado G, AR XA rega 200 ShureV15III MR, Lenco l70 rega rb202 Stanton881s, LCR loungeMM preamp
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Re: platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

Postby snfrosten » 27 Oct 2017 01:10

With the solid mounted arm you will have motor vibration invading the arm, smearing the detail and image that the table had a potential of producing. Motor needs now to be isolated from the rest of the table for it to work, just buy a Rega or other table instead of screwing up the AR design. The Gigharbor tables are pretty but since they are not informing you of how they are built and the price they are asking is fairly high, I can't see spending the money on a table not designed properly. Solid mounting an arm on an AR table without any other mods will not improve the sound but have adverse effects. Also, is the suspension still active or is that also been defeated, all these things make the AR table the reason it sounds so good.
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Re: platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

Postby plexi » 28 Oct 2017 00:33

I agree if defeating suspension of toplate as well as hard mounting the arm on same plinth, it would essentially be a rega. And also it appears couple examples at the gig harbor are using this scenario which I agree is probably not fruitful. But I think a couple of his kept the sprung toplate.

But the scenarios I was imagining -I want to either try both a toplate sprung as well as trying a solid toplate , but use an isolated arm in each case.

so apart from suspended with arm on same supended toplate -i.e. stock) the two scenarios I was hoping to get theoretical backing for, is 1. suspended toplate with separate arpod (consider this solid mount - but isolated). the second being a hard no sprung toplate with same isolated armpod. Isolating the arm in each scenario should not smear detail as would a solid mounted to plinth arm...so I guess the idea of keeping a sprung toplate with an isolated armpod is the scenario that I have not really seen many do and am wondering whether or not that is a definite disaster or not. My initial tests suggest it is not, and can sound quite good. But theoretically it doesn't quite add up in my mind since usually when the toplate is sprung the arm is also on that same toplate and that has a whole philosophy behind it in support etc. But I like to experiement and also I dislike the feeling of handling a bouncy arm, as is the case of a stock AR, so this led me to try the armpod but keeping sprung toplate idea. I didn't expect it to 'work' i.e. sound decent, but it appears to so far...
Garard 401 stanton881s rega rb303, Thorens125/Acos Lustre grado G, AR XA rega 200 ShureV15III MR, Lenco l70 rega rb202 Stanton881s, LCR loungeMM preamp
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Re: platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

Postby snfrosten » 28 Oct 2017 14:42

It would be the same as setting up a suspended tonearm on a Rega type solid table, it would work but not ideal, tracking would suffer which would lead to poorer sound quality.
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Re: platter----arm both suspended/both solid/hybrid

Postby plexi » 28 Oct 2017 20:54

ok, I can see that and do notice lesser tracking. I was just not expecting it to sound good at all and was surprised when it did. But I will pursue the other two options; full suspended top and arm, and solid top with separate armpod. I see no real downsides to a separate armpod (although there might be who knows?) but I can imagine downsides to a plinth mounted arm to a small degree (if not delt with/designed away)
Garard 401 stanton881s rega rb303, Thorens125/Acos Lustre grado G, AR XA rega 200 ShureV15III MR, Lenco l70 rega rb202 Stanton881s, LCR loungeMM preamp
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