Source for AR Replacement Motors

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snfrosten
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Post by snfrosten » 16 Feb 2008 22:22

Hi Stephanie,

I believe you can still buy the Hurst 3001-001 motor from Hurst, last time I checked they ran about $67 plus shipping.

Why do you think your motor's toast

I don't think the Grainger-Hurst motor is going to be a good match even if you can adapt it to your table. May be a good match in the XA tables if you have or can get the smaller diameter spindles.

Also waiting on the results of your shielding project, just wondered if had any good results.

Steve

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Post by danieldust » 16 Feb 2008 23:57

Steve, it's up and running right now. Photos to come tomorrow.

There's a lot more setting up to do with cart alignment and suspension tuning. I think the Rega protractor is pretty much worthless. They want you to line up the lines through the three holes in the top of the headshell area, but this is impossible with a cart installed!

Right now I'm just trying to break in the NOS motor I bought. Unfortunately, it's just about as noisy as the one I had on there before! I'm hoping that will go away in time. If not, I may put a drop of oil in it, but I'm beginning to wonder if oil is a no-no on these motors. It seemed to be a vicious cycle on my other motor whereby the more oil I gave it, the more often it got irritable.

Right now I have a Grado green on there. I may go with something else later once I can save up some money. I welcome suggestions. There is a Grado hum once you bring the cart towards the motor area, but there's a lot less buzz and other noise than there was on the old tonearm, Grado or not. And there's no ground wire, which is interesting.

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Post by gkimeng » 17 Feb 2008 00:21

danieldust wrote:Right now I have a Grado green on there. I may go with something else later once I can save up some money. I welcome suggestions. There is a Grado hum once you bring the cart towards the motor area, but there's a lot less buzz and other noise than there was on the old tonearm, Grado or not. And there's no ground wire, which is interesting.
The Grado Black I have on one of my tables begins to hum if I bring the arm over the label, and the hum increases from there as it gets closer to the motor.

If you look closely at the audio cable, you'll see a conductor between the larger ones that takes a bend into the left channel plug. That's the ground wire, and the turntable grounds through the phono input common. I couldn't find shielded cable with this additional conductor when I was building my second table and had to replace the audio cable, so I ran a separate ground wire and wrapped it and the audio cable with teflon spiral cut tubing.

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Post by snfrosten » 17 Feb 2008 01:07

With the 3 watt motor you will have a larger magnetic field and produce more hum because of it. I wonder how effective a Merrill lead platter mat would be in reducing the hum. I've also switched the ac cord to a three pronged cable attaching the ground to the top plate through one of the plinth hold down screws, seems to help. The Rega arm has its own ground through the rca connectors. You can always run another ground to various spots to see if theres any improvement. The Grados are great sounding cartridges and worth the effort. Shielding the motor is another way of killing the hum, with mu-metal or some other type of reflective material.

Steve

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Post by danieldust » 17 Feb 2008 16:46

I don't think what I have here is a ground hum, but a combination of motor vibration and possibly enhanced Grado hum due to the larger motor, as you said, Steve.

I'd love to try the lead mat too, but I've already dumped more into this turntable than I ever expected to or had the right to, so I kind of doubt I'm ever going to go that route.

The motor is just about as noisy as what I was using before, but after listening to a couple records through headphones last night, I think the hum is worse than ever.

Either the Grado or this motor (or both) are going to have to go.

I will probably try oiling the motor today to see if it gets better, but I'm not optimistic. I paid $80 for this thing, and I got practically no improvement. :evil:

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Post by ddarch » 17 Feb 2008 17:04

Danieldust,

You bought the motor from the guy on eBay and it's noisy? I've been waiting for someone to review that motor.

Do you have a spare cartridge to ascertain whether it's the Grado or not?

Dave

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Post by danieldust » 17 Feb 2008 18:08

You mean you want me to do another cart alignment?!?!?!? :lol:

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. I'll try it and let you know. The Grado is not quite aligned properly anyway, I'm sure.

The guy I bought it from is wireless57, if I remember correctly. He seems to ba a bit of an AR afficionado himself. He wonders if a different capacitor would help, but I kind of doubt it. His feedback is full of people who bought this motor with no complaints. Why am I the only one with the problem? This is the third motor I have installed on this TT, and all of them have been noisy.

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Post by snfrosten » 17 Feb 2008 19:12

You need to change the cap on the motor, the original XA motor has a .1 mfd-600 vdc cap. The new AR 3 watt motor needs a .25mfd-400vdc cap., may be why the motor makes noise.

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Post by danieldust » 17 Feb 2008 23:03

The guy who sold me the motor gave me a new cap to use with it. It's a big orange one.

All it says on it is:

SBE716P600V
254K 0418


I didn't know what to make of any of that. I didn't even know which end was which, since there was absolutely no marking of any kind on it other than the text above, so I assumed it was non-polarized and just stuck it in.

I put on a crappy old AT cart earlier, and the patented Grado hum was gone, though some low level buzzing was introduced. The motor has been running all afternoon and seems to be quieting down a bit, but it remains to be seen if that will last.

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Post by snfrosten » 17 Feb 2008 23:15

That cap should be fine, try adding a small ground wire from the subchassis to the plinth/top plate mounting screw and then continue the ground to the phono stage of your pre-amp. Hum is bad, buzzing is intolerable.

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Post by danieldust » 20 Feb 2008 14:23

I put the Grado back on and realigned it better with the protractor found on this site specifically for Rega arms. I get no buzzing at all, and the hum is quiet enough that it doesn't really bother me. I do want to get rid of it, but I can live with it until I can save up money for a different cart. Right now it's not really audible until I turn my headphone amp's volume knob up to about 12:00, and since I don't listen much past about 9:00, it's not really a problem. I do think the Grado sounds very good, so it's too bad that Grados don't seem to work well with AR tables.

The motor has calmed down a bit, but it's still noisier than I think it ought to be. On the other hand, torque is increased. I can start the motor with just a nudge on the platter rather than having to get it all the way up to speed by hand and then turning on the motor, as I was having to do with my old motor.

I listened to several records yesterday. Right now my turntable sounds better than it ever has. Whether it's the new tonearm itself, better alignment (which was not really possible with my old arm after I had rewired it), the Grado cart, or a combination of all three, I don't know, but overall I'm quite pleased with the results. Vinyl surfaces are quieter and distortion is significantly reduced. I was listening to Soft Machine 6 the night before last and just kept wondering where the little distortions on the higher frequencies had gone and what had happened to the little bit of mysterious surface noise that showed up in certain parts of the record. It's all pretty much gone now, and I'm really pleased with it!

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Post by gkimeng » 20 Feb 2008 15:49

danieldust wrote:I put the Grado back on and realigned it better with the protractor found on this site specifically for Rega arms. I get no buzzing at all, and the hum is quiet enough that it doesn't really bother me. I do want to get rid of it, but I can live with it until I can save up money for a different cart. Right now it's not really audible until I turn my headphone amp's volume knob up to about 12:00, and since I don't listen much past about 9:00, it's not really a problem. I do think the Grado sounds very good, so it's too bad that Grados don't seem to work well with AR tables.

The motor has calmed down a bit, but it's still noisier than I think it ought to be. On the other hand, torque is increased. I can start the motor with just a nudge on the platter rather than having to get it all the way up to speed by hand and then turning on the motor, as I was having to do with my old motor.
My experience with the Grado Black is similar to your Grado experience. It sounds ok to me, but just ok. Not going to get rid of it, but it's not going to be the modern alternative to replacing XLM stylii that I had thought it might be.

I think you still have motor/drive issues. Both my old 2-motor tables start without my having to nudge the platter, though one of them does occaisionally go in the wrong direction and then I have to nudge it in the right one. I think I need to reorganize my record storage to move the White Album farther away from it.

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Post by danieldust » 20 Feb 2008 16:36

I thought a bit of a spin by hand was standard procedure for starting this TT. Can anyone else confirm or deny?

sjg
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the XA single motor wants a little startup help

Post by sjg » 20 Feb 2008 20:08

you recall correctly danieldust -- it is not a bad thing to do either from what I understand-- it may reduce the tax on the motor and help it last longer.

A few other notes on setup to decrease hum --1-have you tried flipping the plug to see if one orientation is quieter than the other?

If you have moved the turntable the electromagenetic fields may be different -- espeically if the tt is closer to an amp or tv etc.

As for cartridges, I like the original Shure M91ed over the cheaper Grados -- but now that you have that Rega arm the variables are probably a bit different.

would love to see a pix of the finished product!

Best, Stephanie

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Post by gkimeng » 20 Feb 2008 21:03

danieldust wrote:I thought a bit of a spin by hand was standard procedure for starting this TT. Can anyone else confirm or deny?
A lot of AR owners I've known don't like to wait for the platter to come up to speed (I couldn't move the arm from its rest to the record fast enough for that to be a problem if I tried), or don't like the sudden lurching with which the platter sometimes begins to turn. But the platter refusing to turn at all is usually a sign that your belt tension is wrong, the platter bearing needs some oil or loosening up or that the unobtainium thrust disc at the bottom of the bearing well has disintegrated or is missing.

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