ar speakers lacking bass

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pauldorset
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ar speakers lacking bass

Post by pauldorset » 24 Feb 2019 14:38

Hi guy's really in need of info on my ar-a3 improved speaker's as i don't seem to get much bass from them get more bass when i move head just above them but nearly zero bass if i put my ear in front of them about 12" with both or just one running, at the moment they been powered by a quad 606 power amp idea's really needed

lenjack
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by lenjack » 24 Feb 2019 17:09

Are you talking about the AR-3A? If they are in good shape, they should have tremendous bass? I don't know what AR-3A improved means. When did you get these, and what condition are they in? Do they have the original woofers? All AR woofers had foam surrounds which completely deteriorated after a number of years. They can be refoamed. Replacement woofers are available, although I don't know what quality they are. Others here can give you more info.

If you can get these working right, you are a very lucky person, and I envy you. [-o< =P~

derspankster
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by derspankster » 25 Feb 2019 00:17

All AR speakers DID NOT have woofers with foam surrounds. Many earlier models up until at least 1969 had cloth surrounds. There also was a model called the AR3a Improved but I know little about them. I believe the biggest difference between the standard AR3a and the Improved was the addition of a toggle switch to adjust driver levels and a tweaking of the crossover. I could be wrong. But, there are many reasons why there could be a problem with speakers of this age. The most knowledgeable people I know reside over at http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.B ... -research/ I've owned AR speakers since 1969 but the folks over at Classic Speakers know they're stuff. Follow the link I provided.

Spinner45
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by Spinner45 » 25 Feb 2019 01:18

derspankster wrote:
25 Feb 2019 00:17
All AR speakers DID NOT have woofers with foam surrounds. Many earlier models up until at least 1969 had cloth surrounds. There also was a model called the AR3a Improved but I know little about them. I believe the biggest difference between the standard AR3a and the Improved was the addition of a toggle switch to adjust driver levels and a tweaking of the crossover. I could be wrong. But, there are many reasons why there could be a problem with speakers of this age. The most knowledgeable people I know reside over at http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.B ... -research/ I've owned AR speakers since 1969 but the folks over at Classic Speakers know they're stuff. Follow the link I provided.
If the cloth surrounds are original, chances are they "dry out" over the years, allowing air to penetrate.
This then robs the woofers of producing the original levels of bass, and in particular, makes them prone to "bottoming out" and damage to the voice coils.
Then, you've got real problems.
Pressing carefully on the woofer cone and releasing, if the cone bounces back quickly, it's in need of "re-doping" or re-sealing, or possible air leaks elsewhere.
There should be noticed "resistance" to pushing the cone in, and its slow relaxing.

pauldorset
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by pauldorset » 25 Feb 2019 01:45

yes you are correct the AR3a Improved do have a toggle switch to adjust the top end levels and slight change in box size, and think was made in early 70's & bass unit's have foam surrounds, but the speaker's seem to sound like there out of phase and have checked power amp and cable's all are correct.

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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by Spinner45 » 25 Feb 2019 01:54

pauldorset wrote:
25 Feb 2019 01:45
yes you are correct the AR3a Improved do have a toggle switch to adjust the top end levels and slight change in box size, and think was made in early 70's & bass unit's have foam surrounds, but the speaker's seem to sound like there out of phase and have checked power amp and cable's all are correct.
If someone's been in them to do service, they may be wired incorrectly.

hobie1dog
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by hobie1dog » 25 Feb 2019 02:09

Test the speakers with a 9 volt battery to see if the woofers move out or in when you touch the speaker wires to the battery.(observing proper polarity on the speakers and battery terminals )

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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by Spinner45 » 25 Feb 2019 05:53

hobie1dog wrote:
25 Feb 2019 02:09
Test the speakers with a 9 volt battery to see if the woofers move out or in when you touch the speaker wires to the battery.(observing proper polarity on the speakers and battery terminals )
That would eliminate any question with the woofer polarity.
However, the tweeters could be "in phase" while ONE of the woofers could be wired backwards.
In that case, the proper thing to do would be to remove said woofer and correct the fault.

pauldorset
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by pauldorset » 25 Feb 2019 10:20

i been doing a quick test regarding reply's i got first they are not really air tight as bass move's freely & have tryed polarity with 1.5v battery seem's ok both bass driver's + wire's are in correct phase next is to check caps on cross over as i get the feeling mid's might be giving to much output which is over powering bass ?
also looking into the quad 606 might be lacking power due to power supply might need upgrading to give it more punch on lower end but think caps in speaker's need checking and replaced any idea what cap's as only name i know from the past are alcaps which was used a lot in speaker's maybe still good just for testing before spending £100's on better one's but first test old cap's

phivates
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by phivates » 25 Feb 2019 15:04

Are you certain the surrounds are sound?

derspankster
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by derspankster » 25 Feb 2019 15:38

Even if these speakers had cloth surrounds they could be salvaged with a treatment that is available. I have used it myself and it is very effective. But, it has been established that these particular speakers have foam surrounds. I would guess that they most assuredly need replaced. New surrounds are available for the AR3a woofer from several sources. Here is a link to just one https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic ... -11ar.html

In addition, there could possibly be an issue with the crossovers. As previously stated, someone may have had your speakers open at some time and made detrimental changes. I'm sure there's a wiring diagram for these on the internet somewhere.

Finally, perhaps the drivers themselves have lost their seal. If they had been removed at some point, the sealant or gaskets would need to have been renewed to make them air tight. My particular 3a and 4x both use a putty like sealant. I used duct seal to reseal all the drivers when I rebuilt my crossovers and cleaned up the pots.

Again, Classic Speakers https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic ... -11ar.html is a great resource.

Best of luck!

pauldorset
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by pauldorset » 25 Feb 2019 16:12

surrounds are still like new condition

derspankster
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by derspankster » 25 Feb 2019 16:18

pauldorset wrote:
25 Feb 2019 16:12
surrounds are still like new condition
Must have been replaced then. If there is no resistance and a slow return when pressing the cones then there is an air leak somewhere.

pauldorset
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by pauldorset » 25 Feb 2019 16:40

they had new foam surrounds that was replaced about 7 year's ago

i have checked the crossovers caps all in spec & no changes when checking with the wiring diagram

bass unit's have gaskets & have resealed them need to do mid & tweeter

have looked on Classic Speakers site seems like other's are having same issue.

Spinner45
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Re: ar speakers lacking bass

Post by Spinner45 » 25 Feb 2019 18:10

pauldorset wrote:
25 Feb 2019 16:40
they had new foam surrounds that was replaced about 7 year's ago

i have checked the crossovers caps all in spec & no changes when checking with the wiring diagram

bass unit's have gaskets & have resealed them need to do mid & tweeter

have looked on Classic Speakers site seems like other's are having same issue.
A couple of us have mentioned - do the woofer cones move slowly back to position if pressed in?
You haven't answered that yet.

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