the home of the turntable

Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

on level ground

Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby capelyddol » 20 Oct 2017 12:23

Hi Guys
I'm looking to upgrade from my Benz Micro Gold. It's a nice cartridge, but I don't feel it's quite giving me enough.
I'm considering the AT-ART9 cartridge as an upgrade but I'm concerned it's compliance 18×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz) may not suit my RB300. Would anyone care to venture an opinion? I've also considered the DV Karat 17D3, but that has a compliance of 15x10-6cm/dyne. Mass of the AT is 8.5grms, and the DV is 5.5grms (plus, it's a sod to set-up!) The arm is stock except for a Mitchell Counterweight and Cardas rewire - oh, and I've removed the VTF spring.
Am I asking too much of the RB300?
Rega Planar 3 (circa 1994) RB300 (Cardas rewire) Tangospinner subplatter/pulley/Vesconite HL bearing/SRM Silent Base/Mitchell Techno Counterweight/ Benz Micro Gold, Linn Kairn, Linn Ikemi, Linn Numerik, Linn Tunebox (active X-over), 3 x Linn LK140, Active Linn Kabers, Linn Sizmik.
capelyddol
member
member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 22:03
Location: France

France

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby kb007 » 20 Oct 2017 12:37

The 17D3 is a vry nice cart, I have had one for a couple of years now on my modded RP6. When I first got it, I had an issue with it dancing around a little on the RB900 arm I had on the table. A little extra weight on the headshell and a rebalance of the VTF solved that problem very effectively. It's not really that hard to set up, there's not much play on a rega arm once you set the overhang where you want it.
Funny thing is, when I put a new RB2000 arm on my P6, I didn't need any additional headshell weight at all. It was a simple install for the 17D3 and it sounds awesome.
Main: JMLab Mezzo Utopias, Oracle Delphi Mk 1/6, SME309, Sumiko Celebration, AR CD3, Sutherland Insight, Moon P5, AR Ref-75 Sec: Rega P6/RB2K Lim Iso base, Acrylic skeletal plinth/braces, dbl pulley, gt sub, DV 17D3, Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, , 2X Anthem MCA50, Acoustech PH-1, Totem Mani-2
User avatar
kb007
member
member
 
Posts: 229
Joined: 17 Sep 2015 12:40

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby Ottermel » 20 Oct 2017 18:09

Why don't you stick with Benz Micro and try Ace SL??
When the music fades so will the world
User avatar
Ottermel
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 542
Images: 0
Joined: 19 Mar 2012 21:42
Location: Ontario, Canada

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby finger painter » 20 Oct 2017 19:20

Why don't you stick with Benz Micro and try Ace SL??


+1 here.

I couldn't think of anything better. Certainly from my experience in the kind of price range which covers 17D3 territory. I like the Dynavector 17D's but the ACE has the edge in overall presentation plus it is less fussy over set-up.
finger painter
 

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby capelyddol » 21 Oct 2017 11:41

Thanks for your responses. When I first decided to upgrade the Benz I'd decided on a Dynavector 20X2, based on past experience of that manufacturer. Admittedly, in those days they were called 'Ultimo' and it was more years ago than I care to remember. Then I began to consider just how 'good' a cartridge the RB300 arm could cope with. In so doing, I walked into a minefield. Actually, given my absolute top whack of 1,200 pounds (and even that started to creep into the "well, maybe about" region it was more like walking into a top class fancy Paris boulangerie and being able to select just one of the many delightful looking confectioneries on display. Which one to choose, and would I like it when I tasted it, or might I wish I'd chosen that other one with all the cream on top?
I've spent a long time in the cake shop seeking out the opinions of others: "You'll love that one with the fancy icing," "Oh, I prefer that one with the nuts on top," "Surely, this one here with the chocolate filling is right up your street?"
Okay, so it wasn't fancy cakes, more DV-17D3, or, AT-AR9, or ZYX this, or Lyra that...(why are those men in white coats walking up my drive carrying a straitjacket?)
Then I get two eminently sensible 'vinylengineers' suggesting I stick with what I like and just upgrade to another Benz cartridge. Well, why not? The Ace SL is well within my budget and I do like the musicality of the Micro Gold. But, I could possibly stretch to the Glider - or even the Wood S, though one website rates the best loading for the Glider at between 1000 - 47000ohms which may not be well suited to my Linn Kairn MC input rated at 150ohms...so, it has to be the ACE or the Wood S...but, which?
Unless, of course, you can suggest an even tastier cake...? :?
Rega Planar 3 (circa 1994) RB300 (Cardas rewire) Tangospinner subplatter/pulley/Vesconite HL bearing/SRM Silent Base/Mitchell Techno Counterweight/ Benz Micro Gold, Linn Kairn, Linn Ikemi, Linn Numerik, Linn Tunebox (active X-over), 3 x Linn LK140, Active Linn Kabers, Linn Sizmik.
capelyddol
member
member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 22:03
Location: France

France

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby kb007 » 21 Oct 2017 12:20

Couple of things come to mind - Sumiko Blue Point Special - HO version - matches nicely to your 47k input. Possibly an AT OC9III - should also work well. Maybe a Sumiko Blackbird.

Best suggestion would be to try to use your pre-amp with potential carts to see if there are any gotchas before you buy.
Main: JMLab Mezzo Utopias, Oracle Delphi Mk 1/6, SME309, Sumiko Celebration, AR CD3, Sutherland Insight, Moon P5, AR Ref-75 Sec: Rega P6/RB2K Lim Iso base, Acrylic skeletal plinth/braces, dbl pulley, gt sub, DV 17D3, Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, , 2X Anthem MCA50, Acoustech PH-1, Totem Mani-2
User avatar
kb007
member
member
 
Posts: 229
Joined: 17 Sep 2015 12:40

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby mayebaza » 21 Oct 2017 13:07

The Wood SL is very good and will be show at its best
mayebaza
member
member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 04 Nov 2012 21:18

United Kingdom

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby capelyddol » 21 Oct 2017 14:28

kb007 - I think you mis-read, my MC input is rated 150ohms, not 47k. It's a very good MC input on the Linn but I'd like to be sure any cartridge I buy will suit it. As for trying with potential carts, I'm afraid that's a no-no. Here in rural France the nearest good hi-fi showroom is 500 miles away in Paris. I have to take the plunge, buy online, and hope for the best. Hence, I'm digging into the vast experience of you guys here (though I've not come across many Linn enthusiasts on this forum :!: Where are you, guys :?: ) My old Rega Planar 3 came with a Sumiko Blue Point 1. It was truly awful, but I suspect the stylus had been used for planing wood, so it's not fair to judge based on that one example. I've heard the latest Sumikos are very good, but again I'd have no opportunity to trial one.
mayebaza - thanks for your support for the Wood SL. It's the one I'm leaning toward at present, but still a bit concerned it may prove a mismatch for the Kairn. I really don't want to have to spend more on a SUT. The distaff side's already getting a nervous twitch :roll:
Rega Planar 3 (circa 1994) RB300 (Cardas rewire) Tangospinner subplatter/pulley/Vesconite HL bearing/SRM Silent Base/Mitchell Techno Counterweight/ Benz Micro Gold, Linn Kairn, Linn Ikemi, Linn Numerik, Linn Tunebox (active X-over), 3 x Linn LK140, Active Linn Kabers, Linn Sizmik.
capelyddol
member
member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 22:03
Location: France

France

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby kb007 » 21 Oct 2017 17:10

Sorry, not clear enough, with that cart you would more likely use the mm input with the cart wanting 47k and being HO.
Main: JMLab Mezzo Utopias, Oracle Delphi Mk 1/6, SME309, Sumiko Celebration, AR CD3, Sutherland Insight, Moon P5, AR Ref-75 Sec: Rega P6/RB2K Lim Iso base, Acrylic skeletal plinth/braces, dbl pulley, gt sub, DV 17D3, Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, , 2X Anthem MCA50, Acoustech PH-1, Totem Mani-2
User avatar
kb007
member
member
 
Posts: 229
Joined: 17 Sep 2015 12:40

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby kb007 » 21 Oct 2017 17:14

If you're buying new, see who has a good return policy. If you're buying used, worst case is you re-sell it and lose a few bucks, but generally you're not going to simply lose your entire purchase price if you do have to re-sell.
Main: JMLab Mezzo Utopias, Oracle Delphi Mk 1/6, SME309, Sumiko Celebration, AR CD3, Sutherland Insight, Moon P5, AR Ref-75 Sec: Rega P6/RB2K Lim Iso base, Acrylic skeletal plinth/braces, dbl pulley, gt sub, DV 17D3, Anthem AVM60, Krell 402e, , 2X Anthem MCA50, Acoustech PH-1, Totem Mani-2
User avatar
kb007
member
member
 
Posts: 229
Joined: 17 Sep 2015 12:40

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby Legrace » 21 Oct 2017 19:16

Don’t forget to check out Kiseki....

Sent from a beach in the Bahamas....
Reanimated vinyl enthusiast circa 2015...
#1 AudioMods V Rega RP6/Kiseki Purple Heart NS
#2 Dual 721/Rega Apheta 2
#3 Sony PS-X4/Pickering XV-15/625E
Amps: Marantz PM11S1, VTA M125 Monoblocks
Speakers: Tannoy D700 (biamped), SVS2000 sub
User avatar
Legrace
long player
long player
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: 23 Nov 2015 21:17

Canada

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby finger painter » 21 Oct 2017 22:37

I think you mis-read, my MC input is rated 150ohms, not 47k. It's a very good


I have my ACE (Medium output and a great 'one way or the other' choice) is loaded at 200 and it couldn't be happier. I have a friend with the wood and I really must say it is an exceptional performer. Very detailed and spacious while giving a nice sense of control and a grip of musical events. The ACE in comparison is very much the same but for my musical taste it does have more attack and more defined transients. It can be very surgical of the music though and does leave some LP's wanting. The wood is rather more forgiving and gives the impression it is a class act. Which it is.

A few past experiences. The Sumiko's as fine as they can sound can at the same time sound dull and non-involving. At the same time I find the Special to be a little too shrill for my taste and delicate to say the least.

OC9's are fantastic cartridges in most respects but show it a system which leans towards the bright and they can be crucifying. Very much an AT family sound. My AT love starts and stops at the 95e.

However the best cartridge in the box here by some margin is an old Supex 900 which was re-tipped and sapphire cantilevered by Expert Stylus . My Uber Ortofon Windfel of the time soon went up for sale. Very Koetsu and happily plays its way through any genre you want to throw at it and I struggle to find any reason to want part ways.
finger painter
 

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby capelyddol » 22 Oct 2017 00:22

kb007 - many thanks for your input. I think I'll probably go with one of the Benz Micros. At least I know what they sound like, otherwise I may as well stick a pin in a list.

Legrace - There seem to be only two Kiseki available in Europe, the Blue and the Purpleheart (very USA :D ). Sadly, both are outside my budget.

satanfriendly - that's useful information, thanks. I'm almost decided on the Wood, but who knows, I've changed my mind a few times already #-o . The best combo I ever had was a Linn LP12/Grace 707/Supex 1000. That was thirty-odd years ago and I doubt there's anything to beat it today. I know what you mean about the Supex sound and I understand why you'd never part with the 900. Maybe one day I'll pick up a used one on eBay, get it retipped and give it a try.
Rega Planar 3 (circa 1994) RB300 (Cardas rewire) Tangospinner subplatter/pulley/Vesconite HL bearing/SRM Silent Base/Mitchell Techno Counterweight/ Benz Micro Gold, Linn Kairn, Linn Ikemi, Linn Numerik, Linn Tunebox (active X-over), 3 x Linn LK140, Active Linn Kabers, Linn Sizmik.
capelyddol
member
member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 22:03
Location: France

France

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby JohnMichael » 23 Oct 2017 22:04

As much as I like my turntable and the RB250 tonearm I do not think I would go too high end. My main concern is always the proper setting of vertical tracking angle. If the arm were more easily adjusted I would choose a microline stylus but since it is not a good elliptical for me. A cartridge of $1,000 or more deserves more than an almost setting.
Rega Planar 2, Incognito Rewire, Michell Technoweight, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, 24V motor and TTPSU, Funk Firm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2Rega feet and one RDC cone, Grado Sonata Statement, Moon 110 LP.
User avatar
JohnMichael
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 424
Images: 1
Joined: 02 Jan 2010 23:50
Location: Newark, Ohio

United States of America

Re: Suitable High End MC Cartridge For RB300

Postby capelyddol » 24 Oct 2017 11:06

John Michael ~ I've just ordered a Benz Micro Wood SL, and I'm well aware of the point you make. It will take careful setting up on the RB300, and even then may nor perform at its best in that arm. It's very much a 'suck it and see' as I can find no definite, confirmed, opinion on just what the arm is capable of. If I find it doesn't work well in the Rega, I shall consider my options - the first being another arm (Grace 707?) on the Planar 3. Like you, I've modded the TT almost as far as I can go, though there's still the 24v motor and another platter to consider, which I note you have on your '2'.
I'll certainly be posting my findings here, if only to save others angst [-o< .
Rega Planar 3 (circa 1994) RB300 (Cardas rewire) Tangospinner subplatter/pulley/Vesconite HL bearing/SRM Silent Base/Mitchell Techno Counterweight/ Benz Micro Gold, Linn Kairn, Linn Ikemi, Linn Numerik, Linn Tunebox (active X-over), 3 x Linn LK140, Active Linn Kabers, Linn Sizmik.
capelyddol
member
member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 22:03
Location: France

France

Next

Return to Rega