Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

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Strife21
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Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 20 Mar 2018 03:07

So I got a brand new Planar 2 last week the one with the auto anti skate. Originally had the carbon cart on there and set the tracking force to 2 grams. I took it this week to my local high end audio shop to get a ortofon 2m red put on and they installed and aligned it for me.

It was no slub who did as he is one of the vp's at McIntosh. Anyway they had to set the tracking force to 2.5g to counteract the arm moving to the out edge of the platter. They didnt seem to concerned about 2.5 grams

My confusion lies in why the other cart seemed to be fine at 2 grams and why this one is requiring more then 2grams.

Strife21
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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 20 Mar 2018 04:13

Also forgot to mention the turntable is perfectly level and I have used multiple digital tracking force scales.

draganm
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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by draganm » 20 Mar 2018 04:26

well if the anti-skate is not adjustable, and the choices are either adding 1/2 gram more weight to get it to not skate inside or out, or set it at the recommended 2.0 grams VTF and have one channel biased over the other, I would choose what they did.

as to why the old one didn't and the new ones does, could be the mass of the cartridge, the type of tip on the stylus, VTA, or any combo of factors.

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by james73_2008 » 20 Mar 2018 04:31

The new Planar 2, or more accurately the new RB220 arm, has no adjustable anti-skate.

I suspect that's why some "slub" at your "local high end audio shop" set the VTF to 2.5g for the Ortofon cartridge. He knows there's trouble coming down the pike and he just wanted you out of his hair.


IMHO if you still have the option, get your money back for the Planar 2 and put it towards a Planar 3.

Failing that, try and locate a Rega arm that HAS adjustable anti-skate like the RB250/RB251/RB202/RB300/RB301/RB303/RB330 to replace the RB220 you have, an arm that you can always sell on at a later date.



James H
Last edited by james73_2008 on 20 Mar 2018 04:48, edited 2 times in total.

draganm
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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by draganm » 20 Mar 2018 04:47

my money's on stylus type for the anti-skate discrepancy. The Carbon is a basic conical stylus, not the last word in detail but they track well and are super-forgiving of imperfect alignment.
Performance: Setting the tracking weight at 2.3 or so grams, or 23 or so Nms of tracking force, if you prefer, I was all set to let the Carbon sing. The good thing about the conical stylus of the Carbon is that it is much more forgiving of imprecise set up than your average fastidious expensive modern moving coil cartridge.
The ortofon Red is an eliptical diamond which will retrieve more info but is more finicky on the tracking.

Would I lose sleep over an extra .5gm, no, not at all.

BTW, you didn't say anything about the playback quality. Did you notice a nice improvement, you should have?

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 20 Mar 2018 14:23

draganm wrote:my money's on stylus type for the anti-skate discrepancy. The Carbon is a basic conical stylus, not the last word in detail but they track well and are super-forgiving of imperfect alignment.
Performance: Setting the tracking weight at 2.3 or so grams, or 23 or so Nms of tracking force, if you prefer, I was all set to let the Carbon sing. The good thing about the conical stylus of the Carbon is that it is much more forgiving of imprecise set up than your average fastidious expensive modern moving coil cartridge.
The ortofon Red is an eliptical diamond which will retrieve more info but is more finicky on the tracking.

Would I lose sleep over an extra .5gm, no, not at all.

BTW, you didn't say anything about the playback quality. Did you notice a nice improvement, you should have?

There was a big improvement. Just a little concerned is all.

Strife21
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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 20 Mar 2018 14:24

james73_2008 wrote:The new Planar 2, or more accurately the new RB220 arm, has no adjustable anti-skate.

I suspect that's why some "slub" at your "local high end audio shop" set the VTF to 2.5g for the Ortofon cartridge. He knows there's trouble coming down the pike and he just wanted you out of his hair.


IMHO if you still have the option, get your money back for the Planar 2 and put it towards a Planar 3.

Failing that, try and locate a Rega arm that HAS adjustable anti-skate like the RB250/RB251/RB202/RB300/RB301/RB303/RB330 to replace the RB220 you have, an arm that you can always sell on at a later date.



James H
So I bought the turntable from turntable lab in New York. My local audio shop put the new cart on. They used this weird oscilloscope looking device and a test disc. I don't really think its there fault.

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by draganm » 20 Mar 2018 16:24

Strife21 wrote:There was a big improvement. Just a little concerned is all.
You can always shoot an e-mail to ortofon tech support and ask about the 1/2 gram, see what they say for peace of mind

My next cart will be a 2M, currently using a Rega Exact (the original version), but I heard a 2M Black on a friends system with a TT I designed and built for him, it was sublime.
So I have one here, his old one with the cantilver busted off , he thinks it was cats ? :mrgreen:
The darn thing will cost me over $400. just for that part, but it's user install-able so at least there won't be shop labor.

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by audiopile » 20 Mar 2018 16:45

i was taught to use a oscilloscope and test records to set tracking force/anti-skate by a Shure engineer 40+ years ago. Have used this ( with a succession of test records -darn things wear out!)for probably a thousand customer's arm/cart setups - have a very high confidence in this as a meaningful and repeatable test. It certainly isn't uncommon to find that a particular arm/cart requires a bit more than the "spec" to track records cleanly. Exceptions are : Carts like the JICO SAS or Soundsmith Grace F9 replacement styli that come with warnings to not exceed ? grams tracking force. The 2m red is a very nice cart to my ol' ears. And in a year or two you can upgrade to a 2m blue stylus.

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 20 Mar 2018 23:26

So I did attempt the trick done with the magnet on this post just to see what would happen and not surprisingly putting a small 6mm magnet from the craft store with some blue tack on the back of the of the tone arm base to offset the other magnet a bit lets me dial the vtf at 1.8g.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=100125&start=15

There is a post about taking the tone arm off and moving the magnet that came with out it out slightly and regluing it but I am too afraid Ill damage something.

http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/ ... nt.205514/

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by DSJR » 24 Mar 2018 14:36

Rega anti-skate (bias correction in UK terms) is always on the high side and I was told it's something to do with the magnets they have to use? For ANY RB arm, I'd suggest a general setting at around half the tracking force in all honesty and go from there... of course the Planar 2 bias now can't be adjusted now? but a call to Rega via an officialdealer may yield an answer?

The Carbon is a conical tip (not bad quality either if mine's anything to go by) and I usually track at a smidge under 2g for best sound. The 2M Red ought to be 1.5 - 1.8g I thought and I'd say from experience that 2,5g is pushing it a bit. Do you like the sound in any case?

From experience, I'd be inclined to reduce the tracking weight to the recommended Ortofon setting and hope the bias correction isn't so far out. If it is, it could be a warranty issue perhaps...

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by audiopile » 24 Mar 2018 16:48

HiFi News and RR Feb 2018 issue has a review of the Plannar 2 p68-71. Very positive review.

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by clipperjay » 24 Mar 2018 16:59

Just my 10 cents or 1 Penny's worth as its new, I would let it bed/run in and get a few driving miles on it before re-adjusting anything else, but like most people if you are unhappy return it they mass produce these things after all...... just saying!

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by draganm » 27 Mar 2018 18:36

DSJR wrote:Rega anti-skate (bias correction in UK terms) is always on the high side and I was told it's something to do with the magnets they have to use? For ANY RB arm, I'd suggest a general setting at around half the tracking force in all honesty and go from there...
by " on the high side" do you mean it tends to bias the arm outwards towards the lead-in groove.?
I have a P5-RB700 and it's the opposite. At 1.8gm tracking I have the anti-skate about 80% of the way engaged to keep the stylus neutral in the groove, otherwise it slides inwards.

It is odd that the P2 has no adjustment, someone at marketing must have decided that the average buyer for this would just run the re-branded AT cart it comes with. $500. price difference between P2 and P3 is significant

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Re: Brand New Planar 2 auto anti-skate issue

Post by Strife21 » 28 Mar 2018 02:46

Rega rep emailed me back and said it was cause I don't have the cart aligned using there protractor, the shop set it up as baerwald. And that he thinks if I put it like the original cart was aligned it would work as intended.

The magnet trick seems to be working fine and I think I would prefer the baerwald alignment. But I guess at some point Ill test.

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