Garrard SP20B reject failure.

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alcoheroe
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Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by alcoheroe » 27 Oct 2016 21:58

The reject on my turntable has failed and I have been unable to find the correct service manual to try to sort it out. The reject has been a little hit and miss for a while, but this week I noticed the arm no longer has any resistance past the center of the record. Upon turning it over I found a little metal wire laying underneath that I believe to be part of the turntable. There doesn't seem to be any obvious place for it to go, and I have searched somewhat for pictures/manuals but have come up empty. Anyone here familiar with this model that can give me a hand?


http://i.imgur.com/XN9fufD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ig0Aaia.jpg

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 28 Oct 2016 03:34

From the parts diagram for your Garrard SP20B's multiple-play sibling, the Garrard Model 40B (click on it to view the image, then click again to enlarge it if necessary), it is the "OVERLOAD SPRING" indicated as #110. It was in every single Autoslim-chassis Garrard changer and single player...which means MILLIONS of them in many different model numbers!

The OVERLOAD SPRING is intended to prevent damage to the tonearm and mechanism if the arm is grabbed while it is returning to its rest. If this happens the arm releases under spring tension, and when the grabbing hand releases the tonearm, it returns to its normal position under tension of the OVERLOAD SPRING.

If the OVERLOAD SPRING is loose or missing, the mechanical relationship between tonearm and the parts underneath is lost.

It is hard to describe how it is installed, but it goes on the back of the tonearm, normally visible from behind (easier to see if you pull the counterweight off). The bottom engages a hole in the "Pickup Lever Unit," #111; the top end goes through a hole in the "Pickup Bracket Assembly," #12.
In the middle, it engages a boss in the "Pickup Lever Unit" so that the top end pulls the top part of the Pickup Bracket Assembly with the tonearm attached to it, OUTWARD until it is stopped by the "Pickup Lowering Position Adjustment Screw," #16. (Pickup Bracket Assembly #12 is in two pieces riveted together, that rotate on one another).

I can not find a photo of how the OVERLOAD SPRING is installed. I've fixed thousands of these (even bent up my own spring if an owner had lost his, and the location became second nature early on; but I can't describe it sufficiently for a novice. Maybe I can dig out a Garrard Autoslim-chassis record changer and take a photo.
40B diagram Capture2.jpg
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A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 28 Oct 2016 04:55

The overload spring may not have been the source of your auto trip/reject problem.

The automatic trip on this chassis frequently gets sticky...finally it won't trip any more. ALL Garrard Autoslim machines need this auto trip maintenance sooner or later.

Refer to viewtopic.php?f=23&t=79056 for the procedure on servicing the auto trip mechanism. Go to the third post in the thread for illustrated instructions.

DSJR
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by DSJR » 28 Oct 2016 11:09

I *think* it can be replaced without removing the tonearm cradle, but it's a pain to do so be warned. You'll need around six fingers and a couple of thumbs per hand as well.........

Below is a rotten pic of an over-greased 60mk2. if you follow the tonearm cables, you'll just see where this clip goes and how it hooks onto the back of the tonearm 'horizontal' bearing assembly and is kept under tension by the exposed 'stud' above the hook-hole.

https://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/ ... 004b85.jpg

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 28 Oct 2016 21:48

I always install the overload spring without removing the tonearm. It is best done with the record changer removed from its mounting base and the counterweight removed from the tonearm.

I put the long, straight top part through its hole in the Pickup Bracket Assembly. Then with a tweezers or needle-nose pliers or whatever works, I thread the bottom part though its hole in the Pickup Lever Unit. Now comes the hard part: pushing the middle part of the spring over the "stud" to the RIGHT (looking at it from behind) until it snaps down over the "stud" under spring tension. It sounds simple but the job is generally punctuated by copious strings of obscene language.

You COULD remove the tonearm, install the overload spring, and reinstall the tonearm, but that can be difficult. The screw that secures it is always VERY tight. A good-fitting screwdriver is required. If you don't torque it back just as tight it will eventually work free and unscrew. Also you have to be careful reinstalling that screw, as it threads into the bottom of the two-part Pickup Bracket Assembly and also serves as the tonearm's horizontal pivot...its flat end bears onto a ball bearing in the pickup base casting...and the reinstallation is made more difficult because the whole thing is then under tension from the Overload Spring, if it has been properly installed. You also need to take care not to damage the tonearm wiring.

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 29 Oct 2016 06:48

I got out an Autoslim-chassis changer...this one is a Model 50...and did my best to photograph the OVERLOAD SPRING. Unfortunately it is impossible to get it all into one photo because the chassis gets in the way. So here are THREE photos, showing, from top to bottom, (1) an overall view, showing it hooked into its bottom hole and the top end through its upper hole. The middle and bottom photos show how it is positioned at the "stud" in the middle...bear in mind that it is under spring tension at this point; when installing you will be pushing this part of the spring to the RIGHT until it snaps into position over the "stud."
IMGP9682-4a1.jpg
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To see the photo full-size, click on it (in Windows 7)...you may then have to click again to enlarge it.

I hope this helps.

DSJR
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by DSJR » 29 Oct 2016 16:13

Thanks from me for posting these pics. My decks are in cold storage in the loft and difficult to get to, but your pics show it about as well as any can. Hopefully the OP can now set to work, with suitable swearing every third try :)

alcoheroe
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by alcoheroe » 30 Oct 2016 01:27

You guys are AWESOME. I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.

Again, THANK You

alcoheroe
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by alcoheroe » 19 Nov 2016 18:05

Thanks for everyone's help. I finally got a chance to work on it today and it couldn't have gone better. I had it back in place in just a couple minutes. I also took the opportunity to remove the platter, but it was clean inside and no grease anywhere. I put everything back together and the reject is working better than it has in a couple years.

Again, thanks for all of your help.

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 19 Nov 2016 20:51

Congratulations! If it had been one of the automatic changers or an SP25 Mk III and up, you'd have noticed the problem a lot sooner because the arm would not have set down properly at start of play.

A couple of minutes...doesn't leave much time for swear words!

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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by A70BBen » 06 Dec 2019 16:43

A belated correction to this thread: not ALL Autoslim-based Garrard's used this spring. The original Autoslim, both with one-piece arm and with detachable headshell (Autoslim/P) and the large-plattered AT5 did not. They used a coiled spring. The overload spring we are discussing here originated with the AT6 in 1961 and was then adopted across the range for successive Autoslim-based chassis to the end of production decades later.

Sammied89
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by Sammied89 » 07 Dec 2019 05:54

I just got my hands on a 2025tc and in process of trying to fix a tonearm malfunction the same exact thing happened to me. Thanks to the post I got the overload spring back in place but now I'm not sure how to put the lifting and pick up bracket back together and perfectly honest I know nothing about the inner working of a turntable. help.

DSJR
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Re: Garrard SP20B reject failure.

Post by DSJR » 07 Dec 2019 16:54

It may be better to CAREFULLY remove the arm proper from the metal bearing bracket 'C' (#95 on the TC exploded parts list in the service manual here) having removed the stylus force spring from the multi-hole adjustment area (make a note as to which 'hole' this spring locates in) - there's just enough 'give' in the plastic pivot to allow this but please don't over stress. Fitting said bracket is where you need four or more hands, but with care, two will suffice. You have the vaguely 'C shaped' bearing bracket (#160 pickup lever?) upon which that awkward overload spring fits, then a washer, then the bearing bracket 'C' (part #95). The top pivot screw is then carefully eased in through these parts and into the top bearing pivot hole in the top casting and gently screwed into place. Before clipping the arm back on its vertical bearings, make sure the assembly you've just assembled rotates smoothly back and forth and that everything sits correctly and level.

Once the arm is carefully clipped back into operating position, it won't hurt to check the 'fiction link' underneath which fully engages the arm on auto movement (Diagram 8 ). This was usually greased and my suggestion today is to remove said grease and either leave it dry, or with a drop or two of light machine oil to ease quiet movement back and forth in play mode (same oil you may use for the idler wheel bearing and motor bearings).

Hope this helps. the 2025TC was my first experience of the 'Autoslim' series of decks and although the 3000 and 3500 had arguably superior tonearms (ignoring the upper model detachable shell types). Looking back in the manual at the pictures of this deck brought my early fondness for the model back to me (it was in a Hacker GP42 record player and fitted with the Hacker-preferred Acos GP96-1 softie-sounding cartridge).

P.S. This is another from the era that began using an O ring on the bottom of the platter hub under the geared part (1.6mm x 17mm? - #55 in the parts list). Not essential to use it, but the auto mech cycles so much more quietly with it fitted. Without it (they usually turn to goo and 'drip' away), the mechanism sounds like badly meshing gears when cycling...

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