Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

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DSJR
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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by DSJR » 17 Mar 2018 14:47

Some Garrard cams have a black tacky grease smeared in the groove underneath and in UK climes it tends to stay there and do it's job, unlike the other greases Garrard used :( Spinner's absolutely spot on regarding that roller and of course if the cam's running groove has no lubricant, you'll need to use something, as long as you don't use so much it creeps onto the deck plate and fouls the trip slider...

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by Spinner45 » 17 Mar 2018 19:30

DSJR wrote:Some Garrard cams have a black tacky grease smeared in the groove underneath and in UK climes it tends to stay there and do it's job, unlike the other greases Garrard used :( Spinner's absolutely spot on regarding that roller and of course if the cam's running groove has no lubricant, you'll need to use something, as long as you don't use so much it creeps onto the deck plate and fouls the trip slider...
I use a light "smear" of Super Lube on a cotton swab and run it around the groove.
That's all you need, the main thing is having a free rotating roller.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by A70BBen » 17 Mar 2018 23:15

Good thought. It doesn't happen all the time, though. My junkbox-rescue AT6 Mk II, which is coming together from salvaged parts (there is lots of parts interchangeability among Autoslim-chassis Garrards) did NOT have that problem.

The newer ones have an antifriction black coating inside the cam groove. Don't wash it away with solvent!

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by Spinner45 » 18 Mar 2018 02:24

A70BBen wrote:Good thought. It doesn't happen all the time, though. My junkbox-rescue AT6 Mk II, which is coming together from salvaged parts (there is lots of parts interchangeability among Autoslim-chassis Garrards) did NOT have that problem.

The newer ones have an antifriction black coating inside the cam groove. Don't wash it away with solvent!
Nonsense, that's just a moly coating and not important.
A smear of super lube will work better.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by DSJR » 18 Mar 2018 11:41

And what does 'moly' do - I understand it reduces friction and this stuff doesn't creep or dry out.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by Spinner45 » 18 Mar 2018 16:02

DSJR wrote:And what does 'moly' do - I understand it reduces friction and this stuff doesn't creep or dry out.
Moly, like graphite, was used for its specific properties, but it's old hat and messy.
There are better, preferred ways to reduce friction today.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by amagasakii » 19 Mar 2018 02:21

The roller spins freely, but I'll definitely pop the cam back off and re-do it with super lube rather than the lithium grease I used.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by amagasakii » 21 Mar 2018 03:31

I redid the cam with super lube instead of lithium grease; it doesn't seem to have improved the hesitation, but it hasn't made it worse. The hesitation occurs halfway through the cycle; I wonder if it coincides with the resistance points shown in this photo from UK Vintage Radio:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/att ... 1474013920

Should I put a bit of extra lubrication at these points? If it won't make a difference (or will simply be squished out the first time the cam cycles), I won't bother.

Chainsaw oil worked wonders! The only noise when it's running now is the sound of the bearing race...that is, until I put the beauty ring back on.

With the record spindle snapped in place, the platter clip rubs against the underside of the beauty ring and causes it to make a scraping sound (and occasionally catch).

I took the clip off and discovered it's slightly warped. I doubt that I can flatten it out; any bending I do will likely be futile or, worse, cause it to snap. Is it reasonable to simply bend the three "legs" of the beauty ring slightly to raise it up a little?

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by Spinner45 » 21 Mar 2018 05:14

amagasakii wrote:I redid the cam with super lube instead of lithium grease; it doesn't seem to have improved the hesitation, but it hasn't made it worse. The hesitation occurs halfway through the cycle; I wonder if it coincides with the resistance points shown in this photo from UK Vintage Radio:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/att ... 1474013920

Should I put a bit of extra lubrication at these points? If it won't make a difference (or will simply be squished out the first time the cam cycles), I won't bother.

Chainsaw oil worked wonders! The only noise when it's running now is the sound of the bearing race...that is, until I put the beauty ring back on.

With the record spindle snapped in place, the platter clip rubs against the underside of the beauty ring and causes it to make a scraping sound (and occasionally catch).

I took the clip off and discovered it's slightly warped. I doubt that I can flatten it out; any bending I do will likely be futile or, worse, cause it to snap. Is it reasonable to simply bend the three "legs" of the beauty ring slightly to raise it up a little?
What you've described seems to imply improper assembly and an impossible to determine situation due to your attempts at changer repairs.
The service manuals explain some problems, but you've now complicated the situation excessively.
Your problems simply are "not in the book".
Continuing discussions and even pictures are futile for anyone to determine "what the hell you did".
Sorry, but as far as I can determine, the only way to rectify things is to hand it over to someone experienced in Garrard changer repairs.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by amagasakii » 21 Mar 2018 06:45

Turns out sometimes the best idea is to go with what's most obvious. #-o The hesitation is indeed caused by the detent in the cam track nearest the trip pawl. A little extra lubrication in that area has lessened the hesitation, and sightly bending the legs of the beauty ring has eliminated the contact with the platter clip. Success!

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by DSJR » 27 Mar 2018 18:44

One way to check for anyone in the future is to remove the platter and rotate the main cam anti-clockwise to 'feel' the loading on the cam as it goes round. Looking underneath, the main mech plate which is what makes the auto-magic happen is pivoted on one 'corner' and a slot in it slides on a riveted greased runner at another. half way through the cycle when the 'clicks' happen, it's not uncommon for some tonearms to kick up and down a bit with the change on loading on this plate. Another riveted part difficult to tie down if it becomes loose (unless you know what you're doing of course...).

later decks have a small O ring placed around the lower platter hub immediately under the geared teeth which engage the cam itself. You'd know if your deck ever had one as there's a shallow small groove cut round the casting and you'd notice the gooey mess there. The SP25 III with same platter had this (part #138 in the SP25 III service manual) and adding this item (I think it's 13mm x 1.6mm or close to it) will quieten and smooth the auto running. I don't think earlier models can use one of these sadly.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by amagasakii » 17 Sep 2018 08:51

A belated thank you to everyone for your patience and sharing your knowledge! I've only been able to work on this little project a few evenings a month, so it's taken a while, but I'm 99% done:

42460

Yes, this is a Model 40B, not the SL-65B. I had already built this plinth but decided I like the SL-65B and didn't want to use it as a portable. As luck would have it, I found this Model 40B at a thrift store. Thanks to everyone's help and my practice on the SL-65B, I was able to tear it down and clean it in under an hour. :)

This one needed a bit of additional work-- I had to smooth out a nick in the intermediate wheel and replace a missing contact on the cartridge sled (not only were all the wires long gone, someone had the nerve to lose a contact)!

I made the plinth out of oak and poplar with an MDF motor board. Inside there's an Audiowind preamp, class D amplifier, and a pair of 2" speakers. I decided on an AT3600L cartridge as the heavier tracking weight seems to be a good match to this tonearm. (I resisted the temptation to fiddle with an Astatic 133 I have lying around.)

There's nothing fancy here, and I'm a long way from hi-fi, but it sounds good enough for my ears. Plus now I have a nice little portable unit. :)

Next project, a new plinth for the SL-65B, which I'll be using for the collection of 78s I've inherited.

Thank again, everyone!

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by DSJR » 19 Sep 2018 09:43

You know, I think that for many, vinyl reproduction at ANY price is a long way from 'high fidelity' in the proper purist sense, as at the high end, cartridges and phono stages are often chosen for a particular 'flavour' or 'sonic effect' rather than getting as close to the mastering/cutting session as possible (we can't go back further domestically than this). In some markets it seems, a high price bestows self-esteem on the owner and who cares what's inside, the price tag rules :roll:

That 40b looks fab to me, I'm sure it's just fine and all I can suggest is that you try to fabricate the 'wedge' between cartridge and C2 carrier to get the cartridge a little more 'level' when playing single records. The AT91? you use may not worry much, so excuse my audiophool (audiophile who's gone too far down the road - cough) tendencies here...

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by RESP-AIR LLC » 02 Dec 2018 17:48

Where can I get a cartridge stylus holder for a Garrard sl65b (the stylus is a M71MC). The four colored wires on cartridge were broken off and I don't know where the placement of wires should be
Thank you,
Gary R.

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Re: Thrift store SL-65B -- Initial questions

Post by DSJR » 03 Dec 2018 20:44

It's a 'C2' carrier. If you can solder carefully with a fine tip iron and are ok to CAREFULLY remove the contact plates without breaking them, any online pics will tell you what colour goes where. Replacement wire tails can be freely obtained, but they usually have a contact at each end for traditional headshells and one of the tags on each wire needs to be snipped off and the wire end stripped back a mm or so and tinned carefully before fitting. It's very fiddly but doable but not recommended without removing the metal terminal strips first - you may be able to slide the metal terminals off the back of the carrier if you're careful, but it's a long time since I did this.

One of the pics here shows the wiring colours and where they go in the row -

https://picclick.com/Garrard-C2-Headshe ... 31720.html

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