Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

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janker
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Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 04 Jan 2018 23:00

Hi Everybody
Im new to the Forum so be gentle please,I have the above turntable in a radiogram,The problem is the record does not drop on its own from spindle i need to touch the levers to allow it to drop, also the auto does not work ,i move it to auto and it just slowly moves back to manual,I can do it manually by lifting the arm and lowering onto the record and it plays fine,Only problem is it will not auto return when record is finished.

I have been reading different articles about being gummed up with old grease so have removed the Platter and spindle,Also removed the large gear on right after removing circlip,took some effort but managed it,Cleaned off old grease,Removed the toggle thingy which was seized up and greased it carefully so it was very free {thought this was my problem but no].

Reassembled it,Put the gear back on making sure it was aligned with guides,fitted circlip all looks good.

One question i would like to ask,the spindle i have read needs to be in correct position,i have turned it until it drops into what i think is its correct position and fitted circlip the correct way around on the flat surface.Should you be able to lift the spindle just straight out without moving circlip or have i got something wrong ??

It plays records fine manually but no auto start and record does not drop also does not auto finish need to do it all manually ??

I have downloaded manuals user and service but still i struggling any Help much appreciated,I am x car mechanic so im used to taking things apart just cant see why it wont work after i thought i had found the problem.

many thanks julian

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by A70BBen » 05 Jan 2018 03:42

To begin with, the auto trip levers in the big gear should NOT BE LUBRICATED. They should be clean and dry.

If those levers do not move very freely, the auto cycle will not work at all.

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 05 Jan 2018 12:25

A70BBen wrote:To begin with, the auto trip levers in the big gear should NOT BE LUBRICATED. They should be clean and dry.

If those levers do not move very freely, the auto cycle will not work at all.
Cheers A70BBen
The levers are very free and jiggle about no problem,must be another problem,Where would you suggest i try next.

thanks julian

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 05 Jan 2018 13:55

Ok i have been looking again at the moment action again, when i put it to auto it drops the record ok and the stylus arm picks up but then stops the deck,Ive noticed if i Help the deck turn a little it feels like something binding slightly and then speeds up and arm drops onto record.

It seems like there is a possible bit to much movement on the 4" gear centre Post and so is causing it to bind slightly against the Platter,As the center post looks like it just riveted over underneath im not sure if im going to be able to improve this wobble on center post.

I dont suppose you can buy this center post ? Maybe a modified version where i could tighten a screw from underneath to hold the post more stable ?? dont suppose this would exist.

thank julian

DSJR
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by DSJR » 05 Jan 2018 17:55

Just to say there's some black grease in the track under the main auto cam. Please retain this stuff and ensure the 'pin' poking through the top plate which locates in said groove has a rotating sleeve as stiction here doesn't Help.

On my Autoslim derivatives, the main mechanism plate (which basically does all the work) needed to be removed and the linkages under it (as viewed from underneath) checked - not difficult to remove and replace if you're very careful and note what you're doing. There's a sliding plate mostly hidden as it works between the tonearm bearing assembly casting and the top plate (it acts on the overarm to gauge if there are records in the stack). This can become very sluggish and 'sticky' in operation.

The 2025TC was a good value cheapo auto deck and I have fond memories of the one that came with my Hacker record player. Servicing the mech is the same for all of these models and fixing shouldn't be too large an issue as it's mostly dried lubricant I think.

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by A70BBen » 06 Jan 2018 07:55

janker wrote:It seems like there is a possible bit to much movement on the 4" gear centre Post and so is causing it to bind slightly against the Platter,As the center post looks like it just riveted over underneath im not sure if im going to be able to improve this wobble on center post.

I dont suppose you can buy this center post ? Maybe a modified version where i could tighten a screw from underneath to hold the post more stable ?? dont suppose this would exist.

Are you saying the "center post" on which the large silver cam gear rotates is LOOSE and WOBBLES? ANY movement of the "center post" is too much. If so, that is a major problem. It should be rigidly swaged to the chassis, perpendicular to it, and immobile. If it has come loose, you may have to contrive a way to support it with the unit inverted, while you peen it tightly to the chassis again. Or perhaps you could secure it so it won't move, using an epoxy adhesive. Either way will require stripdown of the mechanism to get access.

This situation arose more often on BSRs than on Garrards. The silver cam gear would seize to the "center post" on which it was supposed to rotate, due to grease drying out. Then a so-called "servicer" would FORCE the gear to rotate, but actually the "center post" would be loosening in the chassis. Some would even work it until it was loose enough to allow the mechanism to function, and give it back to the owner that way. But the design did not allow for the rotation of the center post in the stamped steel chassis, and excessive wear would occur rapidly, resulting in the post and the gear, still seized to it, wobbling.

I really hope this is not your problem...

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 06 Jan 2018 12:07

DSJR wrote:Just to say there's some black grease in the track under the main auto cam. Please retain this stuff and ensure the 'pin' poking through the top plate which locates in said groove has a rotating sleeve as stiction here doesn't Help.

On my Autoslim derivatives, the main mechanism plate (which basically does all the work) needed to be removed and the linkages under it (as viewed from underneath) checked - not difficult to remove and replace if you're very careful and note what you're doing. There's a sliding plate mostly hidden as it works between the tonearm bearing assembly casting and the top plate (it acts on the overarm to gauge if there are records in the stack). This can become very sluggish and 'sticky' in operation.

The 2025TC was a good value cheapo auto deck and I have fond memories of the one that came with my Hacker record player. Servicing the mech is the same for all of these models and fixing shouldn't be too large an issue as it's mostly dried lubricant I think.
Thanks DSJR yeah i checked that and it is free,Im sure its the Gear Problem in below comment.

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 06 Jan 2018 12:10

A70BBen wrote:
janker wrote:It seems like there is a possible bit to much movement on the 4" gear centre Post and so is causing it to bind slightly against the Platter,As the center post looks like it just riveted over underneath im not sure if im going to be able to improve this wobble on center post.

I dont suppose you can buy this center post ? Maybe a modified version where i could tighten a screw from underneath to hold the post more stable ?? dont suppose this would exist.

Are you saying the "center post" on which the large silver cam gear rotates is LOOSE and WOBBLES? ANY movement of the "center post" is too much. If so, that is a major problem. It should be rigidly swaged to the chassis, perpendicular to it, and immobile. If it has come loose, you may have to contrive a way to support it with the unit inverted, while you peen it tightly to the chassis again. Or perhaps you could secure it so it won't move, using an epoxy adhesive. Either way will require stripdown of the mechanism to get access.

This situation arose more often on BSRs than on Garrards. The silver cam gear would seize to the "center post" on which it was supposed to rotate, due to grease drying out. Then a so-called "servicer" would FORCE the gear to rotate, but actually the "center post" would be loosening in the chassis. Some would even work it until it was loose enough to allow the mechanism to function, and give it back to the owner that way. But the design did not allow for the rotation of the center post in the stamped steel chassis, and excessive wear would occur rapidly, resulting in the post and the gear, still seized to it, wobbling.

I really hope this is not your problem...
Thanks A70BBen
Yes your correct thats exactly whats happened,So im trying find a way of securing it,Im sure it seized and put pressure on center post allowing it to wobble.

DSJR
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by DSJR » 06 Jan 2018 18:03

You know, these things in UK climate use are generally so reliable it worries me if a Garrard has seized so badly the cam pivot post is loose and wobbling if someone has tried to force movement here (it happens on the start-stop pivot on the larger chassis models such as my Zero 100, but it's a finer part and less 'laden').

I still think the deck's worth trying to sort, even if a fairly major strip down is called for so you can get hold of the underside of the cam pivot post.

I don't know about the US side of things, but in the UK and after decades of these things being all but thrown out or parted out for parts, the values are starting to climb and good record players like my Hacker GP42 which sold at a local auction with stand for a fiver in 2002 :( are fetching hundreds now. As a result, I suspect there'll be fewer Garrards like this coming up for sale as parted out examples so I hope this encourages you to work on your 2025TC and restore it to its former condition. I don't know the cartridge fitted, but for example, if it was a KS40A, a more 'flexible' KS41C stylus will upgrade it and Musonic in the UK do a single diamond stylus for it too if 78's aren't to be played. Obviously I don't know what's fitted to yours, but if you could tell me it'd Help ;)

A70BBen
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by A70BBen » 06 Jan 2018 19:48

It happens on the large-chassis models, whether the RC88-Type A-Lab 80 series or the SL95-AP-Zero-SB chassis. But those are not peened; the shaft is threaded and secured by a lockwasher and nut, so the assembly can be tightened again after the cam wheel has been removed to clean up the dried grease.

I got off-site private messages from two acquaintances about the problem. Both advised stripping the chassis. One positioned it upside down on a very large bolt and nut so they supported the loose shaft, while the chassis was stabilized on other "props" with rags to prevent damage to paint. Then, using a heavy hammer and a steel nail-set tool, he re-peened the shaft into place. Using this process, it is essential that the shaft be firmly supported, else you could LOOSEN it some more. The other said he got brave, drive the shaft out completely, stripped the paint from the chassis around the remaining hole, then cleaned the shaft and the chassis of any oil residue, and used high-strength epoxy to resecure it. In my experience the slow-set (up to 24 hours to fully cure is stronger, a product filled with steel powder is stiffer when finally cured, and a warmer environment while curing, perhaps 90F or so, speeds cure and makes it stronger. On another-brand record changer, I have used a steel sleeve of correct diameter (coincidentally...you may not find one in the junk box!) and a steel bolt, nut and washers to secure the "substitute" shaft. But the precision required may make this approach impossible.

One could, with a well-equipped machine shop, make your own shaft with a threaded fitting to attach it, duplicating the groove on top to hold the cam gear. I had a frirnd who used to make short, manual-play spindles this way, but he moved away.

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 08 Jan 2018 21:39

DSJR wrote:You know, these things in UK climate use are generally so reliable it worries me if a Garrard has seized so badly the cam pivot post is loose and wobbling if someone has tried to force movement here (it happens on the start-stop pivot on the larger chassis models such as my Zero 100, but it's a finer part and less 'laden').

I still think the deck's worth trying to sort, even if a fairly major strip down is called for so you can get hold of the underside of the cam pivot post.

I don't know about the US side of things, but in the UK and after decades of these things being all but thrown out or parted out for parts, the values are starting to climb and good record players like my Hacker GP42 which sold at a local auction with stand for a fiver in 2002 :( are fetching hundreds now. As a result, I suspect there'll be fewer Garrards like this coming up for sale as parted out examples so I hope this encourages you to work on your 2025TC and restore it to its former condition. I don't know the cartridge fitted, but for example, if it was a KS40A, a more 'flexible' KS41C stylus will upgrade it and Musonic in the UK do a single diamond stylus for it too if 78's aren't to be played. Obviously I don't know what's fitted to yours, but if you could tell me it'd Help ;)
Many thanks DSJR yes im going to try and fix it with bit of engineering.

janker
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Re: Garrard 2025TC Autoplay Not working

Post by janker » 08 Jan 2018 21:42

A70BBen wrote:It happens on the large-chassis models, whether the RC88-Type A-Lab 80 series or the SL95-AP-Zero-SB chassis. But those are not peened; the shaft is threaded and secured by a lockwasher and nut, so the assembly can be tightened again after the cam wheel has been removed to clean up the dried grease.

I got off-site private messages from two acquaintances about the problem. Both advised stripping the chassis. One positioned it upside down on a very large bolt and nut so they supported the loose shaft, while the chassis was stabilized on other "props" with rags to prevent damage to paint. Then, using a heavy hammer and a steel nail-set tool, he re-peened the shaft into place. Using this process, it is essential that the shaft be firmly supported, else you could LOOSEN it some more. The other said he got brave, drive the shaft out completely, stripped the paint from the chassis around the remaining hole, then cleaned the shaft and the chassis of any oil residue, and used high-strength epoxy to resecure it. In my experience the slow-set (up to 24 hours to fully cure is stronger, a product filled with steel powder is stiffer when finally cured, and a warmer environment while curing, perhaps 90F or so, speeds cure and makes it stronger. On another-brand record changer, I have used a steel sleeve of correct diameter (coincidentally...you may not find one in the junk box!) and a steel bolt, nut and washers to secure the "substitute" shaft. But the precision required may make this approach impossible.

One could, with a well-equipped machine shop, make your own shaft with a threaded fitting to attach it, duplicating the groove on top to hold the cam gear. I had a frirnd who used to make short, manual-play spindles this way, but he moved away.
Many thanks A70BBen im going to try a bit of engineering,im sure it will be worth the trouble,much appreciated julian

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