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Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

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Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby acetechhd » 20 Oct 2017 07:56

Previously I obtained a Shure M44E cartridge on a cheapie table. Recently I obtained a Shure M447 cartridge on my brand spanking used Technics SL-1200. I’m curious as to what cartridge would sound better, the stock M447 (with N447 stylus) or the Shure M44E (with a Jico N44E stylus). Both cartridges seem to have the exact same specs, the main difference being the M447 is marketed toward DJs while the M44E was marketed for home use. If anyone is familiar with the exact differences between the two cartridges that would be awesome!
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby KentT » 20 Oct 2017 13:39

The M 44 line began as marketed to audiophiles, all of them. It has been in production longer than V15 Type anything, the E was nicer, and aimed at higher end home use. But this cartridge was around long before there was HipHop and the DMC, and used by everybody from audiophiles, to AM and FM broadcasting, to jukeboxes, and even record changer owners. Not all DJ is Rappers, Scratching, and techno either. Some DJ applications demand quality and low record wear. Don't diss something because it's used professionally. If you did, the Denon DL 102 and DL 103 moving coils, the Ortofon SPU, and the EMT TSD would also be on that list, all the above very coveted audiophile cartridges which also got used in broadcasting. Not to mention even the -7 and G variants of Shure V 15 models got some broadcasting use too, especially on Easy Listening, Classical, and Jazz format FM stations.
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby acetechhd » 20 Oct 2017 15:16

KentT wrote:The M 44 line began as marketed to audiophiles, all of them. It has been in production longer than V15 Type anything, the E was nicer, and aimed at higher end home use. But this cartridge was around long before there was HipHop and the DMC, and used by everybody from audiophiles, to AM and FM broadcasting, to jukeboxes, and even record changer owners. Not all DJ is Rappers, Scratching, and techno either. Some DJ applications demand quality and low record wear. Don't diss something because it's used professionally. If you did, the Denon DL 102 and DL 103 moving coils, the Ortofon SPU, and the EMT TSD would also be on that list, all the above very coveted audiophile cartridges which also got used in broadcasting. Not to mention even the -7 and G variants of Shure V 15 models got some broadcasting use too, especially on Easy Listening, Classical, and Jazz format FM stations.


I certainly didn’t mean to come across as dissing the M447. I simply stated that they’re marketed toward DJs. Otherwise both cartridges are practically the same spec wise and astetics wise. There doesn’t seem to be much of a difference between the two cartridge body’s. I really like the M44E, any problems I had with the cartridge seem to lie with my old turntable (and a worn stylus). One downside to the M44E I can mention is the loud output voltage seems to introduce plenty of surface noise into the music. Otherwise the M44E is a marvelous cartridge, one could say it’s grown on me.
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby beat_truck » 20 Oct 2017 18:03

The obvious difference is the stylus. The 7 is a conical and the E is an elliptical. The bodies should be the same internally. The E should sound more detailed than the 7 but similar overall tone. Listen to them both and your ears will tell you which sounds better.
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby goatbreath » 21 Oct 2017 00:29

I have a Shure M55e Body..

The same unit as the 44e basically..

I tried 3 different styli..

The Shure M44 7 stylus

The Shure M44 G stylus

The Jico M55e stylus.

The M44 7 tracked the best in my 16 grams effective mass Thorens TP13a Kugel arm..

It didn't sound as clean at lighter forces although it did track OK just a bit fuzzy..


Then the M44 G was next in pecking order.

Last by a fair margin was the Jico.. M55e

I think down to the suspension..

I have a M 97xe in a lower mass arm..A Hadcock..
With the brush up on the 97xe at 1.32 grams
Vs the M44-7 at 2.9 grams the M44-7 wins by quite a margin..

The TD150 ab mk 2 did sound a bit bass light,,so the M44 7 is a good match..

The M55e and 44g are both supposed to be 25 compliance units..
The 44g may be spherical,,but it is a much better tracker than the Jico N55e..
I found the older Shure styli better than the Jico when I had a 55e before..

The 44-7 is 20 cu,by the way..

As far as resonance frequency goes,,a bit better match than the 25 cu styli..

You may get off with a 44 G tracking at just under 1.5 grams for a more neutral less
prominent bass sound..The resonance frequency would be a bit low though..

I think the 44 e had a top tracking weight of 4 grams and a 4 x 7 elliptical tip..

I imagine the Jico has a 3x7 elliptical tip..I would be wary of tracking that heavy with that stylus profile..

I tracked the

44-7 at 2.9 grams

The 44 G at 1.44 grams I think it was

The Jico M55e just under 2 grams..

I used test discs and normal music and it took me a couple of weeks to fully do the experiment.Just lots of comparisons...

I have various different tables running with different cartridges and find the spherical
Styli censor damage or other anomalies more than anything else..They can still sound pretty decent,,they miss that last little bit of detail..
I think die to roll off the 2x7 elliptical M97xe misses more..

Swings and roundabouts..Pristine vinyl can sound good with advanced tips..
More damaged or old Decca Phase 4s etc sound great with a spherical..
They can sound unbearable with an advanced tip..
Sometimes end of side distortion is cured by more advanced tips,,sometimes not..

I would rather have a spherical that tracked well than an elliptical that didn't..

Your arm is lower mass obviously than the one I used for my test..
Also yours may produce quite a bit more bass than the TP16a.

You also don't say which SL1200 you have..
did the Mark 1 not have a bit of a massier tonearm..??
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby acetechhd » 26 Oct 2017 01:59

goatbreath wrote: You also don't say which SL1200 you have..
did the Mark 1 not have a bit of a massier tonearm..??

I imagined that when someone says SL-1200 that most people assume its the M2K so I left that part out. My table is indeed the SL-1200 MK2.

I went ahead and tested the M44E and M447 cartridge bodies with the same stylus (brand new N447) and the same album, my findings were rather interesting. The M447 body produced a rather dark subdued sound while the M44E body is bright, full, and energetic (mind you all testing was done on the same table with the same setup and alignment applied to both cartridges). The only way I can simply describe the difference is to say the M44E sounds like a light blanket was lifted from the sound of an M447.

I've prepaired a sample of both cartridge bodies (again same N447 stylus). M447 cart was recorded first.

Michael Jackson - The Girl Is Mine (M447 body) - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yET ... mJsa3dnSzQ

Michael Jackson - The Girl Is Mine (M44E body) - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yET ... TVWUnEtZWc
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby KentT » 26 Oct 2017 02:19

Also, bear in mind if you want elliptical, and lighter tracking, the upper crust relative, the M 55E is also compatible.
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby goatbreath » 26 Oct 2017 03:25

acetechhd wrote:
goatbreath wrote: You also don't say which SL1200 you have..
did the Mark 1 not have a bit of a massier tonearm..??

I imagined that when someone says SL-1200 that most people assume its the M2K so I left that part out. My table is indeed the SL-1200 MK2.

I went ahead and tested the M44E and M447 cartridge bodies with the same stylus (brand new N447) and the same album, my findings were rather interesting. The M447 body produced a rather dark subdued sound while the M44E body is bright, full, and energetic (mind you all testing was done on the same table with the same setup and alignment applied to both cartridges). The only way I can simply describe the difference is to say the M44E sounds like a light blanket was lifted from the sound of an M447.

I've prepaired a sample of both cartridge bodies (again same N447 stylus). M447 cart was recorded first.

Michael Jackson - The Girl Is Mine (M447 body) - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yET ... mJsa3dnSzQ

Michael Jackson - The Girl Is Mine (M44E body) - 48,000hz uncompressed:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4yET ... TVWUnEtZWc


I'm hearing a little difference myself..Interesting..
The sibilants are a little less forced on the 44E body.
I think things like inductance could differ a little in production..
I've noticed myself a new cartridge body can sound a little different than another example of the same..I guess older production wasn't as consistent..
So possibly the difference could be more marked..
Maybe it was more consistent by the time your cartridge was made though..
Many theories there and I don't want arguments to start..lol.
Wire burning in,,magnets weakening slightly..etc

Back when Gibson wound PAF guitar pickups without precise automatic counters etc..
They would all come out different due to inconsistent winding..
A bit more or less windings..
Different wiring suppliers,or even more inconsistency in the wire..
Or the magnets used..
The modern 44 7 may not even use the same wire or magnets..
The Gibson PAF pickups would all end up sounding different..
Could be a case of this here..

Strangely,,so many people claim to sell an exact replica of a PAF..
The original PAF's are highly prized and expensive..
They use sand cast magnets and wooden spacers etc. in replicas..
All the original PAF pickups sound different though.
So a replica,,which one is it a replica of.
Guitar pickups sound different as they age too, partially due to the magnets weakening..

PAF stands for Patent Applied for by the way..

I also read somewhere,,can't verify though that Shure used Alnico Magnets back then...
Alnico tends to demagnetise over time..So it could be that..
Again with guitar pickups,,some folk swear Alnico sounds clearer..
The newer 44 7 may not even use Alnico magnets..
It may use thicker wire,but less turns..

Or possibly a combination of everything above could be the cause.. :D
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby PaulKehayas » 26 Oct 2017 14:32

Interesting.

I recently purchased an M44G to try out in my Dual 1229 and it sounded horrible. Way worse than the M91 even with Jico or Mexican spherical styli and certainly WAY worse than the M35X with the current Shure stylus.

It was sibilant and bright and just plain annoying. I had to remove it after a couple of hours and no recent Shure cart ever had that kind of sound even when not broken in.

What does anyone suppose was up with that?
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Re: Shure M44E vs. Shure M447

Postby BMRR » 26 Oct 2017 20:02

Could be anything. Defective cartridge, defective stylus, or just shoddy quality control in general. Any or all of those things are possible with current-production Shure carts/styli. You're certainly not the first person to purchase a current-production Shure cart and have problems with it, and you surely won't be the last. The company isn't what it used to be.

I'd suggest exchanging it for another M44G. You might end up with a better one.

Also, what VTF were you using? I do not recommend running the 44G stylus at less than 1.5g. Even 1.5g is borderline, in my experience. I got better results at 1.75g-2g. I got significantly better results by removing the stock stylus and putting in an EVG N55E copy, which only cost me $13. At 1.75g it tracks significantly better than the N44G and is much more enjoyable to listen to. It's not perfect by any means, but in my opinion it absolutely clobbers the stock stylus. Your results may vary, of course.
What do dance clubs and classical radio stations have in common? Technics Direct Drive.™
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