New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

the thin end of the wedge
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Boltman92124
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Boltman92124 » 22 Feb 2019 16:06

cafe latte wrote:
21 Feb 2019 07:23
BMRR wrote:
18 Mar 2017 16:24
Just remember that it's not pure carbon fiber. It's a composite of carbon and plastic. AT uses it on their least-expensive cartridges because it's durable and less likely to be bent or broken accidentally by rough handling or an inexperienced user. If it sounded better than an aluminum tube, AT would be using it on more than just their entry-level cartridges. :) The issue here is that the words "carbon" and "carbon fiber" sound sophisticated, advanced, high-tech... and let's face it, audiophiles and hifi enthusiasts are drawn to things like that. LPGear is taking advantage of that and profiting from it. Capitalism at its best (or at its worst, depending on your viewpoint).
Reviving an old thread as I have one of the CF AT95e incoming. The AT3600l sounds better than the AT95e and the AT3600l has a conical and the 95e elliptical and the 95e has an aluminium cantilever. IMO there is something to this composite cantilever, plastic CF composite, whatever it is seems to work well. Very curious to hear how it sounds on a AT95.
I have a very expensive MC with a carbon fiber wrapped cantilever so maybe there is something to it, plastic in there or not no reason why it cant work well, it does on the AT3600l..
Chris
I have both the CF95se and the CF3600le. I prefer the CF3600le. But both track tough LP's like a champ. I've got a Steel Pulse LP with a severe micro-warp. The stock 95e can't get through it..but the CF's are no problemo. Both CF's are 2.5mv output FYI. So expect a lower output than stock.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 22 Feb 2019 23:16

Boltman92124 wrote:
22 Feb 2019 16:06
cafe latte wrote:
21 Feb 2019 07:23
BMRR wrote:
18 Mar 2017 16:24
Just remember that it's not pure carbon fiber. It's a composite of carbon and plastic. AT uses it on their least-expensive cartridges because it's durable and less likely to be bent or broken accidentally by rough handling or an inexperienced user. If it sounded better than an aluminum tube, AT would be using it on more than just their entry-level cartridges. :) The issue here is that the words "carbon" and "carbon fiber" sound sophisticated, advanced, high-tech... and let's face it, audiophiles and hifi enthusiasts are drawn to things like that. LPGear is taking advantage of that and profiting from it. Capitalism at its best (or at its worst, depending on your viewpoint).
Reviving an old thread as I have one of the CF AT95e incoming. The AT3600l sounds better than the AT95e and the AT3600l has a conical and the 95e elliptical and the 95e has an aluminium cantilever. IMO there is something to this composite cantilever, plastic CF composite, whatever it is seems to work well. Very curious to hear how it sounds on a AT95.
I have a very expensive MC with a carbon fiber wrapped cantilever so maybe there is something to it, plastic in there or not no reason why it cant work well, it does on the AT3600l..
Chris
I have both the CF95se and the CF3600le. I prefer the CF3600le. But both track tough LP's like a champ. I've got a Steel Pulse LP with a severe micro-warp. The stock 95e can't get through it..but the CF's are no problemo. Both CF's are 2.5mv output FYI. So expect a lower output than stock.
Hmm interesting so you still prefer the AT3600 with the elliptical.. Will see which I like, but this is what I was wondering all along.
Chris

Boltman92124
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by Boltman92124 » 23 Feb 2019 02:32

Yup. It's on duty this weekend. The CF3600le makes you want to forget all this cartridge swapping business. I need to buy a couple of replacement stylus for the future.

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 23 Feb 2019 03:34

Always with the negativity Moriarity, ...always the negatity! Love that movie! And Lini, and of course you know how we all feel already, but you are an international treasure. Thanks for being there! =D> :D

cafe latte
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 23 Apr 2019 08:02

Now back home finally had time to listen to the carbon cantilever at95. It for sure sounds better than the standard at95e. It is still detailed, but not spitty and harsh as the at95e can be. Bass is good and mids are sweet, a bargain for the money imo.
My 2c 're this carbon fibre composite. In my business we have done quite a bit of carbon fibre composite casting. The resins we used took a bit to find the right one, some compressed when squeezed, the one we settled on sets very very hard, thin pieces snap not bend, with carbon fibre in though breaking is very hard to do. The c.f. version of the Bipod was quite a bit lighter than the all aluminium version and very very stiff too. This in mind I can't see why c.f. composite cantilever would not be lighter than an aluminium one and stiffer too if decent resins are used.
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 23 Apr 2019 08:22

Ok just weighed a few at95e stylus on my lab scale and they are all around 0 443g. Next I weighed the carbon fibre cantilever se from l.p. gear. Which was only 0.431g. Plastic grip is identical just a different colour. Looks like the cantilever is quite a lot lighter with the c.f. version as expected.
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by chgc » 23 Apr 2019 16:49

I have an LPGear carbon stylus for a Denon cart. I haven’t listened to it in a while, but I remember thinking the sound was perhaps a bit better than the stock stylus.

What I think should be clarified here is that it is not really deceptive to call something “carbon” if it is a composite of carbon fibers in a plastic matrix. With the exception of specialized parts that need to withstand high heat (like brakes on racing cars), most things made of “carbon” are fiber reinforced plastics (although the ratio of resin to fiber needs to be minimized to achieve the best strength to weight ratio).

Looking at the carbon cantilever on my LPGear stylus under a 10x loupe, I would guess it is injection molded from a mixture of chopped fibers and plastic resin. A cantilever made of long, continuous fibers might make for a better stylus, but it would almost certainly be harder and more expensive to manufacture.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by cafe latte » 23 Apr 2019 23:34

chgc wrote:
23 Apr 2019 16:49
I have an LPGear carbon stylus for a Denon cart. I haven’t listened to it in a while, but I remember thinking the sound was perhaps a bit better than the stock stylus.

What I think should be clarified here is that it is not really deceptive to call something “carbon” if it is a composite of carbon fibers in a plastic matrix. With the exception of specialized parts that need to withstand high heat (like brakes on racing cars), most things made of “carbon” are fiber reinforced plastics (although the ratio of resin to fiber needs to be minimized to achieve the best strength to weight ratio).

Looking at the carbon cantilever on my LPGear stylus under a 10x loupe, I would guess it is injection molded from a mixture of chopped fibers and plastic resin. A cantilever made of long, continuous fibers might make for a better stylus, but it would almost certainly be harder and more expensive to manufacture.
Unless a few strands are shoved into the mold then resin injected. We tried using chopped fibers too doing the biopds, but the resin turned claggy and would not flow.
Chris

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by chgc » 24 Apr 2019 00:03

Yeah, I was oversimplifying. Getting set up to mass produce injection molded carbon parts isn’t especially cheap or easy, but once that’s taken care of, it’s possible to crank them out in quantity.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 24 Apr 2019 02:20

It’s just not that hard, to make a continuous carbon fiber rod. The carbon fibers, straight, and double revers helix wrap, are wound on a mandrel. Then the resin is continuously mixed and injected, vacuum/heated for fast cure, while it’s pulled and cut into precise length rods. The rods are then further cut and eventually turned to make short tapered cantilever “pins.”

Very similar technology to making braided hydraulic hose. Rubber is cured continuously instead of resin.

chgc
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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by chgc » 24 Apr 2019 02:58

I'm somewhat familiar with how carbon fiber rods (and other things) are made, but I know very little about how carbon fiber phono cantilevers are made. Which cantilevers are made using the process described above?

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by chgc » 24 Apr 2019 03:03

And wouldn't it be a tube (not a rod) if it is made on a mandrel?

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 24 Apr 2019 13:13

The mandrel is used to wrap the carbon fibers. Can be a tube....or not.

I use these very small rods to make splints for retipping styli. If you know where to go, they’re cheap. $8 for all I’ll ever need.

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by chgc » 24 Apr 2019 15:16

Wow, that mandrel must be truly microscopic. And I agree that I was probably mistaken when I speculated that making a simple, unidirectional carbon cantilever would be costly or difficult. While the carbon stylus I have from LPGear is a slightly more complex shape, plenty of cartridges use simple rods or tubes made from other materials like boron or cactus. I wonder why so few cantilevers are made of continuous carbon fibers?

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Re: New LP Gear Carbon Fiber AT95se

Post by wolfie62 » 24 Apr 2019 15:40

The mandrel is long and tapered. Not microscopic. An excess amount of cured resin is on the outside surface of the rods. I simply use a Dremel powered lathe to turn down the rods to form a smaller diameter tapered cantilever. It’s simple. Easy peasy.

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