Stylus Evaluation Imaging

the thin end of the wedge
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cafe latte
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2018 04:03

ray_parkhurst wrote:
05 Dec 2018 03:20
Would be very helpful if you could provide an image of your stylus at 200x to show what you are seeing.
I will try tonight but likely very blurry as really hard taking pics down the eyepiece. After the last few postt I am thinking about a bigger eyepiece. I was told not to go over 25x as too big and image is not as good, but eyepieces are not that expensive so thinking to get 30 or 40x to look for myself and see what depth of field that gives.
Chris

audiodk
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by audiodk » 05 Dec 2018 04:11

cafe latte wrote:
05 Dec 2018 01:41
Also look at the 500x pic it is just showing the tip and contact surfaces your 400x shows whole stylus adhesive and more, 400x would only be the actual tip.
Chris
I have the D3000 stylus that is used in the Pickering image:
Here's a comparison. Please remember that 400X is 25% smaller than 500X
D3000-COMPARE.jpg
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cafe latte
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2018 06:37

audiodk wrote:
05 Dec 2018 04:11
cafe latte wrote:
05 Dec 2018 01:41
Also look at the 500x pic it is just showing the tip and contact surfaces your 400x shows whole stylus adhesive and more, 400x would only be the actual tip.
Chris
I have the D3000 stylus that is used in the Pickering image:
Here's a comparison. Please remember that 400X is 25% smaller than 500X
D3000-COMPARE.jpg
I will order new eyepieces and see how 400x looks then. With mine 400x you are looking at one patch with almost no depth of focus field. Curious to see how a 40x eyepiece changes that.
Chris

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by 33audio » 05 Dec 2018 07:01

I will try tonight but likely very blurry as really hard taking pics down the eyepiece
I have been experimenting with examination of stylus wear using a conventional optical microscope.

Looking down the eyepiece using the movie function is much easier. Play back the movie and stop at
the right time. Then take a screen shot.

The thin lines on the SP-12 are the tracing areas with no wear.

The MMC4 moving coil cart has a small wear pattern.

The red on the SP-12 is to keep it from getting mixed up with other stylii.

As a matter of comparison. Interesting thread.

https://33audio.com/enter/pics/VEshotsB ... oscope.jpg

https://33audio.com/enter/pics/VEshotsB&O/DSCN0656.JPG

https://33audio.com/enter/pics/VEshotsB ... 20text.jpg

https://33audio.com/enter/pics/VEshotsB ... 20no47.jpg

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by ray_parkhurst » 05 Dec 2018 15:46

Good setup for viewing the contacts, similar to the Shure scope. I'd suggest using smaller lights, or perhaps masking-off a lot of your existing lights, and moving them so they are better lined-up with the contact surfaces. What you're looking for is to see the light reflecting EXACTLY off the 45-deg and 135-deg contacts from light coming in at 0-deg and 180-deg. I made a diagram to show this concept. Not to scale of course but gives you the idea of how the reflections work:
Shure Concept.jpg
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audiodk
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by audiodk » 06 Dec 2018 06:03

ray_parkhurst wrote:
05 Dec 2018 15:46
Good setup for viewing the contacts, similar to the Shure scope. I'd suggest using smaller lights, or perhaps masking-off a lot of your existing lights, and moving them so they are better lined-up with the contact surfaces. What you're looking for is to see the light reflecting EXACTLY off the 45-deg and 135-deg contacts from light coming in at 0-deg and 180-deg.
Not an easy adjustment, but I made an attempt to move the lights around.
First image is with the light facing directly at the front.
XSV3000-4.jpg
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Next, I had to adjust the stylus so that the front faced directly at the lens and then I moved the lights so that they are on each side of the stylus. The light reflects the tracing edge although I was not able to get the reflection all the way to the tip.
D3000-6X.jpg
(35.65 KiB) Downloaded 116 times

33audio
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by 33audio » 06 Dec 2018 08:44

Hi, First, are your pics from a digital microscope? How much does a high quality image cost in terms of hardware? I bought a hand-held digital and it was hopeless.

I experimented with lighting periodically for years. 200W projector lamps with variable power supply, flashlights, and also red lamps. The light going inside the diamond and manifesting in the wrong place is a problem. The red lights had good results, but they were hand held so position could not be maintained.

The pics are 60X which is the lowest power and the only one that is usable.

Fading of the light with magnification is a huge problem.

These lamps are LED desk lamps I found at Target for $5 each. They seemed to have a good dispersion of light so I gave them a try. I moved them around until I obtained what I thought was the best reflection obtainable.

I have seen a B&L professional stereo stylus microscope and was given the opportunity to look into it. The turntable is rotated until the reflection appears.

Actually, the best non-digital way that I have found to examine stylus wear is to take a 10X loupe and move it around under a light while looking through the loupe. A reflection can be seen when in the right position. It takes some experience and I wanted to use a microscope to see how close my evaluations were.

The diagram sent by Ray P is very correct and impossible to do.
What you're looking for is to see the light reflecting EXACTLY off the 45-deg and 135-deg contacts from light coming in at 0-deg and 180-deg.
Positioning the stylus is quite difficult. Getting the stylus as close to normal to the platform as is possible is all that seems to be practical. Then move the lamps around until the best reflection is obtained.

These lamps have a lens that disperses the light so that positioning is possible. I recall that the B&L stereo scope had very expensive special bulbs. Perhaps they dispersed light such as to keep from getting an overpowering beam.

Thanks for the replies. I will appreciate any suggestions. This setup is the first one that gave usable results. The reflection is in high contrast to the whole diamond. Regards, Mark

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by Jimbuy » 06 Dec 2018 19:00

I think one of the biggest problems is the very limited depth of field with these digital scopes. Is there a digital equivalent to f stop?

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by ray_parkhurst » 06 Dec 2018 20:35

Jimbuy wrote:
06 Dec 2018 19:00
I think one of the biggest problems is the very limited depth of field with these digital scopes. Is there a digital equivalent to f stop?
Yes, focus stacking.

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by jeff449 » 07 Dec 2018 17:40

Watching thread with interest and appreciation.
Hope to set up something like Mark's setup. I don't need to take pictures (though the focus-stacked images are stunning!), just evaluate stylus wear without spending a lot of money. Got an old medical scope, just need to get lamps. Planning on getting IKEA Jansjos.
One used to be able to take a stylus to a store and have them look at it w/ a professional scope. My store was "Needle in a Haystack." Too bad they are long gone in my area.

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by 33audio » 07 Dec 2018 18:17

Following the illumination advice of Ray P:

The results are much better. This is the same B&O SP-12 stylus shown in the previous
post, but with lighting aligned according to the picture provided by Ray Parkhurst.

Get the setup as close to the diagram as possible, and adjust lighting to compensate for error.

Thanks Ray

https://www.33audio.com/enter/pics/VEsh ... scope2.jpg

https://www.33audio.com/enter/pics/VEsh ... scope1.jpg

https://www.33audio.com/enter/pics/VEsh ... tegLED.jpg

Mark

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by 33audio » 07 Dec 2018 18:40

Hi Jeff:

Your microscope is probably much better than the one I have.

This one is a Jason 707. Seems to be in the budget category.

The stylus is secured with modelling clay. A large lump can be
purchased at Hobby Lobby, not expensive.

Takes some time to mount a platform that will accomodate another
platform sliding on it.

It helps to put some green marker on the cantilever so it can be located
while moving it around under the lens. It gets much easier with practice.

The lights are from Target, about $4.50 each.

Anything greater than 60X with this microscope doesn't work well.

Perhaps your microscope has better lenses. Regards, Mark

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by jeff449 » 07 Dec 2018 18:54

Thank you, Mark.

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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by audiodk » 07 Dec 2018 20:06

Another attempt at different lighting techniques. I spent over 80 minutes focusing and adjusting the lights.
This is a Shibata stylus. I'm using LED reading lights with low and high settings. They each have flexible goose necks.
SHIBATA-1A.jpg
light are aimed 90 degrees from the front
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SHIBATA-2A.jpg
Back lit, low setting
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SHIBATA-4A.jpg
Back lit , high setting
(10.29 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
SHIBATA-5A.jpg
60 degrees, high setting
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SHIBATA-6A.jpg
60 degrees, low setting
(9.52 KiB) Downloaded 67 times

audiodk
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Re: Stylus Evaluation Imaging

Post by audiodk » 07 Dec 2018 20:08

SHIBATA-7A.jpg
45 degrees, high setting
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SHIBATA-8A.jpg
aimed at the tip, high setting
(11.97 KiB) Downloaded 69 times

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