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Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

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Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 11 Jan 2017 16:08

Hello everybody,

Till a few days ago this was my set-up:
Denon DP60-L
Denon straight arm 5 grams
AT30E with AT630 step up
Cambridge 640P

...A few days ago when a Trichord Diablo phono stage (complete of all its stuffs like NCPSU and cable) came to me to change the music in my set up. Actually it improved sound detail and realism but I feel that it needs some more "quality" from the source. So I am considering now to purchase a new cartridge.
Since I have also the Denon S-shaped arm wich should fit with DL103 compliance specs I am a bit curious about a full Denon set up.
Now the question. Would be the 103 or the 103R a real upgrade compared to my old AT? Or should I look for something else?

Thanks for you advices!
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 12 Jan 2017 11:07

Anyone? Delta667? :-)
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Erin1 » 12 Jan 2017 11:33

I'm only posting because nobody else is helping you, probably because not many people have heard an AT30E but I have!

I was ignored a few days ago when someone else asked a similar question.
The AT30E was a fairly high compliance MC cartridge which tracked at about 1.5g and suits light weight tonearms like the one you have. - Which is why it is mounted to your tonearm!

I'm not an expert on moving coils but I did used to own the AT30E which was a very nice sound cartridge with nice midrange detail and a smooth presentation. I enjoyed it.

If you want to use the light straight tonearm you need a higher compliance cartridge and if you want to use one of the current production MC cartridges which suit heavy tonearms that you will need to add weight to the headshell to use them. But if you use the S shaped Denon tonearm that should be OK for any current MC cartrdidge.

All I suggest is that you get one with an eliptical stylus. If you get one with a conical stylus you will probably notice a drop in high frequency quality on inner grooves. So I think you would need at least the 103R. I really cant comment on if the 103R is an upgrade since I never owned it but I know the AT30E tracked very well, sounded refined, and detailed whilst still being musical. So if the 103R can be described as that, then it will be OK. If not, then you need to look at something else.

anyway you can still by the coil / stylus here
http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/audio-tec ... cartridge/
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 12 Jan 2017 17:41

Erin1 I appreciated your support. Actually the AT30E is a quite vintage cart and maybe is difficult to make comparisons.
According to someone I have heard, a brand new cart would be an improvement in any case. Actually the cantilever could suffer the lots of years causing mistracking issues. Agreed. And furthermore I am curious to hear something new (I have all old carts: Satin M21, ADC VLM and Stanton 881S).
So if the 103r or 103 are good as many people says they could give me the different "taste" I am looking for.
I would be disappointed to realize that they are not an improvement, considering that in Europe their price is quite high. In such a case better to save some more money for a Benz Micro ACE L. ;-)
Ciao ciao
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby lini » 13 Jan 2017 01:23

R1: LPGear still offers the ATN31E for not quite US$ 180, with which you could upgrade your AT30E.

Greetings from Monaco di Bavaria!

Manfred / lini
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 13 Jan 2017 08:59

lini wrote:R1: LPGear still offers the ATN31E for not quite US$ 180, with which you could upgrade your AT30E.

Greetings from Monaco di Bavaria!

Manfred / lini

Yes, thanks. Apparently it still does exist a stylus replacement like ATN30E and the ATN31E wich is considered as an upgrade. So Manfred if you where in my shoes you would not change the cart for a brand new DL103 for 40/50Euro more?
Ciao
R.
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby lini » 13 Jan 2017 09:25

R1: Well, I can't really tell what I'd do in your situation, because I don't know enough about your situation (including your taste and system environment). But if I had a DP60L with an AT30E, I'd probably be torn between the ATN31E, the Denon DL301II and the AT33PTG/II...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Delta667 » 14 Jan 2017 10:23

Rossouno wrote:Erin1 I appreciated your support. Actually the AT30E is a quite vintage cart and maybe is difficult to make comparisons.
According to someone I have heard, a brand new cart would be an improvement in any case. Actually the cantilever could suffer the lots of years causing mistracking issues. Agreed. And furthermore I am curious to hear something new (I have all old carts: Satin M21, ADC VLM and Stanton 881S).
So if the 103r or 103 are good as many people says they could give me the different "taste" I am looking for.
I would be disappointed to realize that they are not an improvement, considering that in Europe their price is quite high. In such a case better to save some more money for a Benz Micro ACE L. ;-)
Ciao ciao

Thank you for your trust ))
103 it is the starting point of music fans all over the world. This tuning fork by which to tune the system))
103 just need to have in your collection and cartridge periodically to level your ears that would finally move out into exotics from vinyl.
For AT-30, I have always been indifferent, but when I came across his clone from Hitachi me sound like. Probably materials play an important role, not only the cartridge design.
You are a gorgeous Satin M-21 cartridge, it is ideal under your arm. I do not know how you connect to an amplifier, but for the 21st need high input МС or voltage divider need to connect to the Low MC input. Unfortunately MM input kills all the enormous potential of the cartridge Satin M-21 ((
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 15 Jan 2017 10:07

Delta667 wrote:
Rossouno wrote:Erin1 I appreciated your support. Actually the AT30E is a quite vintage cart and maybe is difficult to make comparisons.
According to someone I have heard, a brand new cart would be an improvement in any case. Actually the cantilever could suffer the lots of years causing mistracking issues. Agreed. And furthermore I am curious to hear something new (I have all old carts: Satin M21, ADC VLM and Stanton 881S).
So if the 103r or 103 are good as many people says they could give me the different "taste" I am looking for.
I would be disappointed to realize that they are not an improvement, considering that in Europe their price is quite high. In such a case better to save some more money for a Benz Micro ACE L. ;-)
Ciao ciao

Thank you for your trust ))
103 it is the starting point of music fans all over the world. This tuning fork by which to tune the system))
103 just need to have in your collection and cartridge periodically to level your ears that would finally move out into exotics from vinyl.
For AT-30, I have always been indifferent, but when I came across his clone from Hitachi me sound like. Probably materials play an important role, not only the cartridge design.
You are a gorgeous Satin M-21 cartridge, it is ideal under your arm. I do not know how you connect to an amplifier, but for the 21st need high input МС or voltage divider need to connect to the Low MC input. Unfortunately MM input kills all the enormous potential of the cartridge Satin M-21 ((


Hi Delta667, actually I just got a Diablo phono stage which gives up to 74db for VLO MC carts. What else? :D the problem is that the stylus of my M21 has something bad and does not work. #-o Any idea?

Now I am using the Diablo with 70db gain for the AT30E which has 0.28mV of output. I am listening a lot because I have to learn the new sound and my LPs plays different now. In particular I found the new "team" AT30E-Diablo great with classic music, and with strings in particular. I never heard very high frequencies on my Studio 125 like this.
Now I am exploring my collection of Jazz. Everything is like a new discover. Probably I will buy a sylus replacement for my AT in order to grant her many more hours on music.

Let's go to the question. What cart could I match to the other arm of my Denon turntable in order to have an alternative to the AT sound?
It is a Denon S shaped medium mass arm and should work well with Denon LO MC carts like 103 series. Or should I seek something different?

Thank you.
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Delta667 » 15 Jan 2017 12:24

Rossouno wrote:Hi Delta667, actually I just got a Diablo phono stage which gives up to 74db for VLO MC carts. What else? :D the problem is that the stylus of my M21 has something bad and does not work. #-o Any idea?

Now I am using the Diablo with 70db gain for the AT30E which has 0.28mV of output. I am listening a lot because I have to learn the new sound and my LPs plays different now. In particular I found the new "team" AT30E-Diablo great with classic music, and with strings in particular. I never heard very high frequencies on my Studio 125 like this.
Now I am exploring my collection of Jazz. Everything is like a new discover. Probably I will buy a sylus replacement for my AT in order to grant her many more hours on music.

Let's go to the question. What cart could I match to the other arm of my Denon turntable in order to have an alternative to the AT sound?
It is a Denon S shaped medium mass arm and should work well with Denon LO MC carts like 103 series. Or should I seek something different?

Thank you.

Unfortunately I a bad counselor for buying new cartridges in the store ))
Let's go back to the Satin-21. What's wrong with him ?
He jumps on vinyl ?
He's deaf, both channels, or a strong imbalance in the canals ?
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 15 Jan 2017 15:43

Image
Image
don't know seems simply broken. I do not think I can take this cart into accout until I find a replacement stylus. :|
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Rossouno » 15 Jan 2017 23:47

Referring to my previous post, the M21 stylus actually is not broken. I've just mounted it and works but it does noises like electric distorsions. I am OT! :-O
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Delta667 » 16 Jan 2017 06:35

The cartridge is not quite normal.
He needs a special input. In an extreme case, it can be connected to the MM input.
■ Power generation method MC type
■ Output voltage 1.8 mV (5 cm / sec 1 kHz)
■ Needle pressure 1.0 to 2.0 g (optimum 1.65 g)
■ Playback frequency band 8 - 30,000 Hz
■ Channel separation 35 dB / 1 kHz
■ Compliance 20 × 10 -6 cm / dyne
■ Internal impedance 30 Ω
■ Needle tip 0.2 × 0.8 mil
■ Weight 9.3 g
■ Replacement needle S - 21 (\ 13,000) S - 21X (0.2 x 2.5 mil line contact \ 18,000)

If a channel balance and output level is all right the source of excessive noise can be dried damper (arrow).
If possible, check the condition of the stylus.
37158
Damper should be flexible otherwise it should be replaced.
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Re: Which upgrade for the old AT30E?

Postby Delta667 » 16 Jan 2017 06:45

Satin cartridges are very sensitive to pollution, therefore, require periodic maintenance. Coils should be washed and put on their new lubricant.
I wrote about this a year ago.
34738
The arrows point to the cartridge lubrication points Satin M-21
32870
Satin M-21B
After maintenance (cleaning, lubrication)
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