Stylus for Grace F9

the thin end of the wedge
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zacster
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by zacster » 18 Feb 2017 16:15

I was thinking more along the lines of we supply the parts, the watchmaker has the experienced hands in placing the parts and lining them up. And for a new canti and tip I was thinking of a transplant from another stylus. If you can find a stylus with the same size shaft/assembly, mounting it to the plastic is pretty trivial actually.

But this is where someone like Soundsmith comes in, he does this for a living and does it right. And the others you mention. Soundsmith is close to me, just north of NYC so I'd probably just stick with him, but he is expensive.

Van_Isle
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Van_Isle » 18 Feb 2017 16:28

I'm looking into Andy Kim ... because he is relatively close to me.

But there's a big difference there ... I would imagine that Soundsmith would be very familiar with this cartridge since they've developed a replacement stylus for it.

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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Van_Isle » 18 Feb 2017 17:47

Here's current pricing from Andy, specifically in response to asking about the F9:

Linear contact stylus, sapphire cantilever $300
Linear contact stylus, aluminium cantilever $250

Compared to:

Soundsmith replacement styli for the F9:

OCL Nude stylus-Ruby cantilever RUBY-OCL (RED) $499
CL Nude stylus-Ruby cantilever RUBY-CL (RED) $399
CL Nude stylus-Aluminum cantilever RS-9U (BLUE) $299
Nude Elliptical stylus-Aluminum cantilever RS-9E (BLUE) $199

Soundsmith re-builds (all are minimum costs):

CL Nude stylus - Boron cantilever $450
OCL Nude stylus - Ruby cantilever $399
CL Nude stylus - Ruby cantilever $350
CL Nude stylus - Sapphire cantilever $299
Nude HE stylus - Aluminum cantilever $200

OCL is "Optimized Contour Contact Line" stylus.

By the way, re-reading my own post I have to correct a later statement regarding the ATN-952 and their variations. Jico did at one time make a SAS stylus for the Kenwood N49.

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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Van_Isle » 18 Feb 2017 18:10

And I think the aluminum cantilever, linear contact would be pretty close to my original, which I believe is a F9E (but the original elliptical is extended range ... it will do up to 60kHz for CD-4 recordings).

I'm awaiting Andy to confirm his are nude mounted ... that could be a big game-changer if they aren't!

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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Van_Isle » 18 Feb 2017 19:03

Andy Kim confirms that his are nude mounted.

Maxwell86
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Maxwell86 » 03 Mar 2017 18:32

Installed the ATN-952 on my Grace f9/Rega RP3 yesterday, been listening to alot of records. I can't say that I'm missing my Elys2 :) Sounds very good.

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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Maxwell86 » 28 Mar 2017 13:14

All these should fit.



Product Description
Diamond 0.7 mil conical tip needle.
16 or 33 or 45rpm NOT for 78rpm
1.5 - 2.5 grams tracking pressure.

Replaces: FISHER/SANYO ST-10J KENWOOD N-49 SANSUI SN-45 etc etc
• Used In: FISHER/SANYO MG-10J KENWOOD V-49 SANSUI SV-45 etc.
• Also Found In: AUDIO TECHNICA FISHER KENWOOD MGA ONKYO SANSUI
• ASTATIC NEEDLES N1686
• AUDIO TECHNICA CARTRIDGES AT-952 AT952 AUDIO TECHNICA NEEDLES AT-952 AT952 ATN-952 ATN952
• EVG NEEDLES PM2308D
• FIDELITONE NEEDLES A867
• FISHER MODELS ACS100 ACS105 ACS108 ACS110 ACS116 ACS122 ACS125 105 108 110 1100 122 125 3100 3200 3300 ICS580 MC4561 MT6117
• FISHER NEEDLES 4-156T-0050 4156T0050 4-157T-00500 4157T00500 4-157T-00G01 4157T00G01 ST-10J ST10J ST-43D ST43D
• KENWOOD CARTRIDGES V-49 V49
• KENWOOD NEEDLES N-49 N49
• MGA CARTRIDGES MAG-4 MAG4
• MGA NEEDLES 3D-44M 3D44M
• ONKYO CARTRIDGES OC40 OC-40
• ONKYO NEEDLE DN-40ST
• RECOTON SP964D
• SANSUI NEEDLES SN-45
• SANSUI CARTRIDGES SV-45
• SANSUI MODELS TPB2 TPX2
• SANYO MODELS H20 TP-1005 TP1005 TP-1010 TP1010 TP-30 TP30 TP-B2 TPB2 V30
• SANYO CARTRIDGES MG-10 MG-10J MS-110 MG-43 ST10J ST10J ST11D ST11D ST43 ST43D MG10 MG10J MS110 MG43 SANYO NEEDLES ST-10J ST10J ST-11D ST11D ST-43 ST-43D

jdjohn
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by jdjohn » 28 Mar 2017 20:39

Van_Isle wrote:Soundsmith replacement styli for the F9:

OCL Nude stylus-Ruby cantilever RUBY-OCL (RED) $499
CL Nude stylus-Ruby cantilever RUBY-CL (RED) $399
CL Nude stylus-Aluminum cantilever RS-9U (BLUE) $299
Nude Elliptical stylus-Aluminum cantilever RS-9E (BLUE) $199
I got the bolded one (RS-9U) above, and it sounds wonderful. We often use descriptors such as bright, warm, analytical, detailed, lush, etc. I describe this particular cart/stylus combo as 'musical'...the most musical of any I've heard. It's definitely the front row sound like a live performance. If the genre is rock, my speakers sound like the guitar amp or speaker monitor right there on stage in front of me - the amplified sound you would expect, and played as loud as you want. If the music is acoustic and unplugged, it's like they are in the room in front of you - just turn it up to a natural volume for the instruments involved, and let it play. There is great separation, and you can locate the players on stage with your ears on the left, right, or in the center.

I did a comparison for a friend between this Grace F9/SS stylus combo and a Denon 301MKII. He agreed on the front row sound of the F9, and an on-stage, standing amongst the band sound (very analytical) with the Denon. Different, but both very good. The dynamics of the music come through better with the F9 to my ears on my setup, with more punch and attack in crescendos, and more delicacy in quiet passages. The Denon has a slightly straighter presentation IMO, and although being extremely accurate, maybe a little less of the recorded dynamics come through, albeit a very enveloping sound overall. In my room and with my acoustics, the Denon is more 3D, and the F9 more front row, 2D. YMMV

jdjohn
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by jdjohn » 18 Apr 2017 04:38

Quick follow-up for those interested, here are some pics of the SoundSmith RS-9U stylus tip. I used a USB stand-mounted microscope. This is their 'contact line' (CL) tip.
SS Grace F9 front.jpg
(49.66 KiB) Downloaded 414 times
SS Grace F9 side.jpg
(45.9 KiB) Downloaded 411 times
SS Grace F9 bottom.jpg
(48.33 KiB) Downloaded 408 times

stevoz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by stevoz » 18 Apr 2017 07:31

Maxwell86 wrote:All these should fit.



Product Description
Diamond 0.7 mil conical tip needle.
16 or 33 or 45rpm NOT for 78rpm
1.5 - 2.5 grams tracking pressure.

Replaces: FISHER/SANYO ST-10J KENWOOD N-49 SANSUI SN-45 etc etc
• Used In: FISHER/SANYO MG-10J KENWOOD V-49 SANSUI SV-45 etc.
• Also Found In: AUDIO TECHNICA FISHER KENWOOD MGA ONKYO SANSUI
• ASTATIC NEEDLES N1686
• AUDIO TECHNICA CARTRIDGES AT-952 AT952 AUDIO TECHNICA NEEDLES AT-952 AT952 ATN-952 ATN952
• EVG NEEDLES PM2308D
• FIDELITONE NEEDLES A867
• FISHER MODELS ACS100 ACS105 ACS108 ACS110 ACS116 ACS122 ACS125 105 108 110 1100 122 125 3100 3200 3300 ICS580 MC4561 MT6117
• FISHER NEEDLES 4-156T-0050 4156T0050 4-157T-00500 4157T00500 4-157T-00G01 4157T00G01 ST-10J ST10J ST-43D ST43D
• KENWOOD CARTRIDGES V-49 V49
• KENWOOD NEEDLES N-49 N49
• MGA CARTRIDGES MAG-4 MAG4
• MGA NEEDLES 3D-44M 3D44M
• ONKYO CARTRIDGES OC40 OC-40
• ONKYO NEEDLE DN-40ST
• RECOTON SP964D
• SANSUI NEEDLES SN-45
• SANSUI CARTRIDGES SV-45
• SANSUI MODELS TPB2 TPX2
• SANYO MODELS H20 TP-1005 TP1005 TP-1010 TP1010 TP-30 TP30 TP-B2 TPB2 V30
• SANYO CARTRIDGES MG-10 MG-10J MS-110 MG-43 ST10J ST10J ST11D ST11D ST43 ST43D MG10 MG10J MS110 MG43 SANYO NEEDLES ST-10J ST10J ST-11D ST11D ST-43 ST-43D
If SO many after market styli fit the F9, makes you wonder why Soundsmith ever bothered to make an F9 replacement styli......As such, I would be treating the above list with extreme caution. [-X

Spurtz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Spurtz » 19 Apr 2017 21:24

stevoz wrote:
Maxwell86 wrote:All these should fit.



Product Description
Diamond 0.7 mil conical tip needle.
16 or 33 or 45rpm NOT for 78rpm
1.5 - 2.5 grams tracking pressure.

Replaces: FISHER/SANYO ST-10J KENWOOD N-49 SANSUI SN-45 etc etc
• Used In: FISHER/SANYO MG-10J KENWOOD V-49 SANSUI SV-45 etc.
• Also Found In: AUDIO TECHNICA FISHER KENWOOD MGA ONKYO SANSUI
• ASTATIC NEEDLES N1686
• AUDIO TECHNICA CARTRIDGES AT-952 AT952 AUDIO TECHNICA NEEDLES AT-952 AT952 ATN-952 ATN952
• EVG NEEDLES PM2308D
• FIDELITONE NEEDLES A867
• FISHER MODELS ACS100 ACS105 ACS108 ACS110 ACS116 ACS122 ACS125 105 108 110 1100 122 125 3100 3200 3300 ICS580 MC4561 MT6117
• FISHER NEEDLES 4-156T-0050 4156T0050 4-157T-00500 4157T00500 4-157T-00G01 4157T00G01 ST-10J ST10J ST-43D ST43D
• KENWOOD CARTRIDGES V-49 V49
• KENWOOD NEEDLES N-49 N49
• MGA CARTRIDGES MAG-4 MAG4
• MGA NEEDLES 3D-44M 3D44M
• ONKYO CARTRIDGES OC40 OC-40
• ONKYO NEEDLE DN-40ST
• RECOTON SP964D
• SANSUI NEEDLES SN-45
• SANSUI CARTRIDGES SV-45
• SANSUI MODELS TPB2 TPX2
• SANYO MODELS H20 TP-1005 TP1005 TP-1010 TP1010 TP-30 TP30 TP-B2 TPB2 V30
• SANYO CARTRIDGES MG-10 MG-10J MS-110 MG-43 ST10J ST10J ST11D ST11D ST43 ST43D MG10 MG10J MS110 MG43 SANYO NEEDLES ST-10J ST10J ST-11D ST11D ST-43 ST-43D
If SO many after market styli fit the F9, makes you wonder why Soundsmith ever bothered to make an F9 replacement styli......As such, I would be treating the above list with extreme caution. [-X
The list is prefaced with the phrase "All these should fit". By no means does it state that all these are high quality. Soundsmith makes very fine stylus assemblies, and you pay for that quality. If you don't need it or aren't willing to pay the amounts they charge, then....you have this list.

stevoz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by stevoz » 20 Apr 2017 07:56

Spurtz wrote:
The list is prefaced with the phrase "All these should fit". By no means does it state that all these are high quality. Soundsmith makes very fine stylus assemblies, and you pay for that quality. If you don't need it or aren't willing to pay the amounts they charge, then....you have this list.
You missed my point. I wasn't referring to quality.....rather, I am doubtful that many, if any, of those listed styli actually fit the Grace F9 body (maybe one or two). It was always accepted after Grace stopped production that there was NO replacement styli for the F9 available, so that's why Soundsmith made a range of them......Some on the list may fit, I even have a non Grace styli that fits the F9 (don't know what it's off, it was given to me by an audio mate), but all I'm saying is I wouldn't be rushing out buying anything on that list thinking it's a sure thing for the F9. :) .........PS: You're system must sound devine!! =D> I just recently missed out on a G707 for $60 incl. half decent TT!! Spewing!! #-o

stevoz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by stevoz » 20 Apr 2017 08:03

stevoz wrote:
Spurtz wrote:
The list is prefaced with the phrase "All these should fit". By no means does it state that all these are high quality. Soundsmith makes very fine stylus assemblies, and you pay for that quality. If you don't need it or aren't willing to pay the amounts they charge, then....you have this list.
You missed my point. I wasn't referring to quality.....rather, I am doubtful that many, if any, of those listed styli actually fit the Grace F9 body (maybe one or two). It was always accepted after Grace stopped production that there was NO replacement styli for the F9 available, so that's why Soundsmith made a range of them......Some on the list may fit, I even have a non Grace styli that fits the F9 (don't know what it's off, it was given to me by an audio mate), but all I'm saying is I wouldn't be rushing out buying anything on that list thinking it's a sure thing for the F9. :) .........PS: You're system must sound devine!! =D> I just recently missed out on a G707 for $A60 incl. half decent TT!! Spewing!! #-o

Spurtz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by Spurtz » 10 May 2017 17:40

stevoz wrote:
Spurtz wrote:
The list is prefaced with the phrase "All these should fit". By no means does it state that all these are high quality. Soundsmith makes very fine stylus assemblies, and you pay for that quality. If you don't need it or aren't willing to pay the amounts they charge, then....you have this list.
You missed my point. I wasn't referring to quality.....rather, I am doubtful that many, if any, of those listed styli actually fit the Grace F9 body (maybe one or two). It was always accepted after Grace stopped production that there was NO replacement styli for the F9 available, so that's why Soundsmith made a range of them......Some on the list may fit, I even have a non Grace styli that fits the F9 (don't know what it's off, it was given to me by an audio mate), but all I'm saying is I wouldn't be rushing out buying anything on that list thinking it's a sure thing for the F9. :) .........PS: You're system must sound devine!! =D> I just recently missed out on a G707 for $60 incl. half decent TT!! Spewing!! #-o
I don't think your point was missed, as you didn't make any reference to a reluctance to "rushing out" and buying from the list. What you stated was that if so many others fit, why would Soundsmith bother to make them? The answer is still obvious - they don't make them just to fit - they make them because they are high quality assemblies, and of course they'll fit. Accepted or not, there are many that fit. I have confirmed three in this list personally, and I know of others that have worked for other owners.

stevoz
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Re: Stylus for Grace F9

Post by stevoz » 11 May 2017 01:48

Spurtz wrote: I don't think your point was missed, as you didn't make any reference to a reluctance to "rushing out" and buying from the list. What you stated was that if so many others fit, why would Soundsmith bother to make them? The answer is still obvious - they don't make them just to fit - they make them because they are high quality assemblies, and of course they'll fit. Accepted or not, there are many that fit. I have confirmed three in this list personally, and I know of others that have worked for other owners.

Well that's three =D> .....but I guarantee not all of them will fit. Why don't you let us all know which three you've fitted and the 'others', so we don't waste time buying off the list and being disappointed when they don't fit? :) I stand by my earlier claim that I would be treating that list cautiously....unless you can filter it down to 'definites' that do fit and I mean fit perfectly. :D PS: I was being serious, not sarcastic, when I said your system must sound great.....an F9U on a G707 on an RP2, a wonderful set up. =D>

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